Electric trains to Exeter? How do you see it happening?

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

This has high potential! 

Although they're going to need more than 50km range if they're going to be used on most of the network. Interesting though to see the competition between this, hydrogen, bi-mode, OHLE and possibly third-rail.

In my view, hydrogen is not a serious contender, it is inherently expensive, explosive, bulky to store, and challenging to handle at fuelling stations.

Neither in my view is any significant expansion of third rail a serious contender, for reasons already given.

That leaves bi-mode (25Kv and diesel)
Or 25Kv throughout
Or bi-mode (25Kv and battery)
As serious possibilities. A battery ONLY train seems unlikely due to lack of flexibility, and the need for large shore supplies for charging, rather than use of existing 25Kv infrastructure for charging.

[broadgage]

Does member Broadgage have shares in this! 

No, why would I want shares ?

[Bmblbzzz]

This has high potential! 

Although they're going to need more than 50km range if they're going to be used on most of the network. Interesting though to see the competition between this, hydrogen, bi-mode, OHLE and possibly third-rail.

In my view, hydrogen is not a serious contender, it is inherently expensive, explosive, bulky to store, and challenging to handle at fuelling stations.

So is all that petrol you keep for friends in your shed!

I also think hydrogen seems an unlikely contender but several manufacturers, such as Toyota, are pursuing fuel cells as a serious power source for rail, road and I think marine too. So I guess we'll have to wait and see; the question is how long do we wait?

[rogerw]

The trains on this line are due for replacement (hopefully) within the next 10 years. It would seem logical to electrify at 25kv west of Basingstoke with dual voltage stock. As Reading to Basingstoke is likely to be electrified the addition of Southampton to Salisbury would give an electric route for the many container trains heading north without the complication of any work on the direct line through Winchester

[PhilWakely]

The trains on this line are due for replacement (hopefully) within the next 10 years. It would seem logical to electrify at 25kv west of Basingstoke with dual voltage stock. As Reading to Basingstoke is likely to be electrified the addition of Southampton to Salisbury would give an electric route for the many container trains heading north without the complication of any work on the direct line through Winchester

If Redbridge to Basingstoke via Laverstock and Andover is to become the regular routeing for freight, would it not mean either a reversal at Redbridge or the addition of a western entrance to the freightliner terminal?

[rogerw]

As far as I'm aware there is already a western entrance to the freightliner terminal,unless it has recently been removed.

[PhilWakely]

As far as I'm aware there is already a western entrance to the freightliner terminal,unless it has recently been removed.

Sorry, you are correct. For some reason I though it was eastbound only, but I've just looked on google maps and seen the layout quite clearly.   

[stuving]

I wonder if this would be the answer - or at least the first answer likely to happen, though the timescale of any retrofit programme is not clear from this press release from Hitachi Rail:

Press release - 06 July 2020 07:30
Hitachi Rail and Hyperdrive agreement opens way for battery trains across Britain

Hitachi Rail and Hyperdrive agreement opens way for battery trains across Britain

Hitachi Rail and Hyperdrive Innovation have signed an exclusive agreement to develop battery packs to power zero-emission trains and create a battery hub in the North East.

...

Following on from that announcement earlier this year, Hitachi are now going to put some batteries into some of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s 802s. This was behind this morning's news items, based on this press release from Hitachi:

Hitachi and Eversholt Rail to develop GWR intercity battery hybrid train ? offering fuel savings of more than 20%
 

•   Batteries replacing an engine to cut fuel usage and reduce carbon emissions
•   First time a modern UK^▸ (United Kingdom) intercity train, in passenger service, will use alternative fuel
•   Tri-mode train can improve air quality and reduce noise across South West route?s non-electrified stations

In a UK-first, Hitachi Rail and Eversholt Rail have signed an exclusive agreement aimed at bringing battery power ? and fuel savings of more than 20% ? to the modern Great Western Railway Intercity Express Trains that carry passengers between Penzance and London.

The 36 longer, faster trains ? with their iconic sleek design ? have already transformed journeys for passengers in south west England, since their introduction by GWR in August 2018. Now the partnership between Hitachi, the train builder and maintainer, and Eversholt Rail, the trains? owner, will develop a plan to install batteries on a modern Intercity Express Train. The trial will demonstrate that the innovation meets passenger service and safety standards.

The line between the South West and London is only partially electrified, with the majority of the 300 mile journey requiring diesel power. The partnership is looking at batteries replacing a diesel engine as a power source on an existing Hitachi-built five-carriage train ? currently known as a bi-mode for its ability to switch seamlessly between electric and diesel power.

Adding a battery creates an electric-diesel-battery hybrid train (tri-mode). On non-electrified sections of the route, the batteries will supplement the power of the engines to reduce fuel usage and carbon emissions by more than 20%. Whereas when travelling in and out of stations and surrounding urban areas, the train would rely on battery power only. This has the benefit of improving air quality and dramatically reduce noise levels, creating a more pleasant environment for passengers and people living nearby.

GWR?s Intercity Express Train fleet currently calls at 15 non-electrified stations on its journey between Penzance and London, all of which could benefit from trains running on battery-only power.

Hitachi Rail will draw upon market-leading expertise in Japan, and the support of its battery partner ? Hyperdrive Innovation. The two North East-based companies reached an agreement in July 2020 to create and develop battery packs for mass production at Hyperdrive?s HYVE facility in Sunderland, the UK?s first independent battery pack manufacturing facility.

The projected improvements in battery technology ? particularly in power output and charge ? create opportunities to replace incrementally more diesel engines on long distance trains. With the ambition to create a fully electric-battery intercity train ? that can travel the full journey between London and Penzance ? by the late 2040s, in line with the UK?s 2050 net zero emissions target.

Installing battery technology on trains can complement electrification and helps to improve the business case for upgrades that can level-up the South West and provide a low emission alternative to domestic air travel.

That reads as if they plan to do a trial, though perhaps even that depends on a bit of prior work on the batteries.

[broadgage]

I remain a bit doubtful about battery power for London to Penzance or similar length journeys.
I see a bright future for battery trains on secondary or lightly used routes, and on main lines that are substantially electrified but not perhaps throughout.

[stuving]

I remain a bit doubtful about battery power for London to Penzance or similar length journeys.
I see a bright future for battery trains on secondary or lightly used routes, and on main lines that are substantially electrified but not perhaps throughout.

I'd be more than a bit doubtful about that. Fortunately it's not part of what Hitachi are proposing.

[broadgage]

Yes, I know that the initial proposal is to fit a battery instead of one of the engines on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train). It has however been suggested that this an initial test with a view to eventually achieving a fully battery powered inter city train.

[Jamsdad]

There are more than 15 non-electrified stations  that IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) call at between Paddington and Penzance. 10 in Cornwall, 9 in Devon, 2 in Somerset , 2 in Wilts , possibly more if you are pedantic. Where does the 15 come from?

[stuving]

Yes, I know that the initial proposal is to fit a battery instead of one of the engines on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train). It has however been suggested that this an initial test with a view to eventually achieving a fully battery powered inter city train.

I don't read it that way, though it's rather ambiguous. It says "fully electric-battery intercity train", and that could be fully electric with a battery as well rather than a diesel. And the wires might have to go a bit further - looking at the distances involved, the stored energy requirement is a tad on the humungous side for going all the way.

[IndustryInsider]

Where does the 15 come from?

The standard calling pattern of through trains.

[PhilWakely]

Using only battery power, without diesel, over the Devon banks could be an interesting challenge - whether talking about either the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) or SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) route. With stops at Totnes on the GWR route and Axminster on the SWR route, both 'in between' severe banks, the batteries would need to be powerful.