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Question: How will Exeter's first train under electric power reach there?  (Voting closes: July 06, 2020, 08:02:57 am)
25kv overhead from London
25kv overhead Devon Metro (local network)
Third Rail from Waterloo
Some other way
Won't happen within 15 years

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Author Topic: Electric trains to Exeter? How do you see it happening?  (Read 664 times)
PhilWakely
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« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2020, 11:43:02 am »

Having lived in Pinhoe for all bar three years of my life, I have used every available opportunity to push for improvements on the Mule. I even used my S' Level Statistics and Degree in Statistics to produce projects on re-doubling the line or using better powered locomotives to improve timing! Call my a cynic if you will, but HS2 will be fully operational to Birmingham before we'll see any major improvements to the Mule. Yes, we may well see a Tisbury-style loop just east of Whimple to enable the Devon Metro to improve local services, but, unless something major causes significant, long-lasting disruption between Exeter and Castle Cary, I cannot see anything else being done to the Mule in the foreseeable future. It is likely that the Tories will promise something to their voters in 2023, but these will be quickly forgotten.
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rogerpatenall
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« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2020, 04:32:13 pm »

Well. I have ticked the not in 15 years box. However, you can argue that electric trains are already running to Exeter. Perhaps the thread should have been headed 'Electric traction to Exeter'?
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JontyMort
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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2020, 08:59:30 pm »

Well. I have ticked the not in 15 years box. However, you can argue that electric trains are already running to Exeter. Perhaps the thread should have been headed 'Electric traction to Exeter'?

But even that won’t work - the traction is electric in both modes.
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grahame
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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2020, 09:12:34 pm »

Looks like I have "goofed" on the description ... and thinking about it, my first visit to Exeter by train must have been some 50 years ago ... electric traction all the way from Brighton, with the train having its own diesel generators carriages 1, 6, 7 and 12 and borrowed for the Saturday Only service off the Hastings to Cannon Street Monday to Friday trains.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
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The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2020, 07:21:13 am »

Here is the ORR position on 3rd rail extension.
It places the onus of safety with the organisation promoting the extension. It specifically mentions the time taken for isolations but NR South East and presumably Wessex are installing modular isolation systems that make it both safer and quicker.

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/17621/dc-electrification-policy-statement.pdf

NR Southern Region (formally Wessex Route and SE Route) are installing a system remotely controlled "Negative Shorting Circuiting Devices" (NSCD) these avoid the need for staff to go on to the track to test and the apply manual straps.  The NSCD are not currently operated by the ECRs but by a facility near the work sites.

The NSCD do make it safer for the isolation staff and does speed the process up.


I would not put forward the idea of wholesale additions to the 3rd Rail network but infills such as Oxted and the North Downs line need to be considered. The other outpost, Ashford to Hastings, would be better done at 25kV so that it could be served from HS1 at Ashford.

Ashford - Hastings electrification at 25kV has more or less been ruled out, due to some significant engineering challenges -

Currently there is no direct track connection from the Hasting line to HS1
The OLE wiring across Ashford from the SE side to NE side
The A/C - DC interface at Ore

Options being looked at are bi-mode battery / Third Rail, if the above could be funded / overcome then the 395 could operate the Hastings / London services
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Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2020, 02:50:31 pm »

The much mentioned - by Network Rail anyway - rolling programme of 25kV electrification must proceed. The first fairly immediate step on the B&H should be wiring to Bedwyn, so the IET's can be replaced by 387's. Follow that with electrification in stages to Westbury (new electric service to include the projected Devizes Parkway station), Taunton & Exeter.

The electrification project teams have enough recent practice, particularly in terms of what not to do, on this route to complete the work in 5-7 years.

(At the same time perhaps the DfT & NR would care to remove their collective head from the orifice in which it currently resides and authorise full completion of the wiring on the routes to BRI.)
I would suggest that replacing IETs by Class 387s on the Bedwyns would affect line capacity between Paddington and Reading. The 387s have a 110mph top speed rather than the 125mph of practically every other train using the Mains between Paddington and Reading and this will affect pathing and line capacity. In the 2019 timetable trains are scheduled to leave Paddington and two minute headways, with the maximum being five minutes there being, IIRC, some 16 departures per hour. Introducing even slightly slower trains on this stretch, even if there is only one per hour, will affect punctuality.

I can't see it happening.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2020, 03:04:02 pm »

If Bedwyn/Westbury  is electrified then IETs could still be used on the services
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southwest
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2020, 11:51:11 pm »

The much mentioned - by Network Rail anyway - rolling programme of 25kV electrification must proceed. The first fairly immediate step on the B&H should be wiring to Bedwyn, so the IET's can be replaced by 387's. Follow that with electrification in stages to Westbury (new electric service to include the projected Devizes Parkway station), Taunton & Exeter.

The electrification project teams have enough recent practice, particularly in terms of what not to do, on this route to complete the work in 5-7 years.

(At the same time perhaps the DfT & NR would care to remove their collective head from the orifice in which it currently resides and authorise full completion of the wiring on the routes to BRI.)
I would suggest that replacing IETs by Class 387s on the Bedwyns would affect line capacity between Paddington and Reading. The 387s have a 110mph top speed rather than the 125mph of practically every other train using the Mains between Paddington and Reading and this will affect pathing and line capacity. In the 2019 timetable trains are scheduled to leave Paddington and two minute headways, with the maximum being five minutes there being, IIRC, some 16 departures per hour. Introducing even slightly slower trains on this stretch, even if there is only one per hour, will affect punctuality.

I can't see it happening.

Extend the Reading to Newbury stopper, then replace the Paddington - Bedwyn stopper with more Exeter/Taunton/Westbury trains.
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Electric train
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2020, 07:06:07 am »

The much mentioned - by Network Rail anyway - rolling programme of 25kV electrification must proceed. The first fairly immediate step on the B&H should be wiring to Bedwyn, so the IET's can be replaced by 387's. Follow that with electrification in stages to Westbury (new electric service to include the projected Devizes Parkway station), Taunton & Exeter.

The electrification project teams have enough recent practice, particularly in terms of what not to do, on this route to complete the work in 5-7 years.

(At the same time perhaps the DfT & NR would care to remove their collective head from the orifice in which it currently resides and authorise full completion of the wiring on the routes to BRI.)
I would suggest that replacing IETs by Class 387s on the Bedwyns would affect line capacity between Paddington and Reading. The 387s have a 110mph top speed rather than the 125mph of practically every other train using the Mains between Paddington and Reading and this will affect pathing and line capacity. In the 2019 timetable trains are scheduled to leave Paddington and two minute headways, with the maximum being five minutes there being, IIRC, some 16 departures per hour. Introducing even slightly slower trains on this stretch, even if there is only one per hour, will affect punctuality.

I can't see it happening.

Mixing 387 and 800 in a service pattern is all about flighting, putting a 387 on fast with a 800 on a Slough stopper flighted together lowers the impact.  Also the difference in acceleration and braking between the two is not big as it was between 165/6 and 253/4

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Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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