Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:55 10 Nov 2024
 
- In Russia's shadow: The Baltics wait for Europe's strategic new railway
- Your pictures on the theme of 'road trip'
- Comedian Godley to go on 'final tour' before funeral
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 21/11/24 - ORR Station use stats
23/11/24 - Congresbury cleanup volunteers
27/11/24 - WWRUG, Trowbridge
28/11/24 - Melksham TUG - 18:30

No 'On This Day' events reported for 10th Nov

Train RunningCancelled
10/11/24 08:38 Exeter Central to Okehampton
10/11/24 08:52 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10/11/24 09:01 Swindon to Bristol Temple Meads
09:12 Swindon to Westbury
10/11/24 09:15 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth
10/11/24 09:35 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
10/11/24 09:50 Swindon to Bristol Temple Meads
10/11/24 09:55 Exmouth to Paignton
10/11/24 10:01 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
10/11/24 10:31 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
10:46 Westbury to Swindon
10:53 Swindon to Bristol Temple Meads
10/11/24 10:54 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
10/11/24 11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:25 Okehampton to Exeter Central
10/11/24 11:31 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
10/11/24 11:55 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
10/11/24 12:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
12:32 Exeter Central to Okehampton
10/11/24 13:29 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
13:30 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
10/11/24 14:00 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
19:26 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads
19:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
20:00 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
21:57 Worcester Shrub Hill to Bristol Temple Meads
22:10 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads
22:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
10/11/24 23:49 Guildford to Gatwick Airport
Short Run
07:38 London Paddington to Penzance
10/11/24 09:18 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
09:20 Bristol Temple Meads to Southampton Central
10/11/24 09:26 Okehampton to Exeter Central
10/11/24 09:45 Plymouth to Cardiff Central
10/11/24 10:25 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
10:32 Exeter Central to Okehampton
10/11/24 10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
10:52 London Paddington to Plymouth
10/11/24 11:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
11:54 Paignton to Exmouth
11:57 Southampton Central to Cardiff Central
10/11/24 12:31 London Paddington to Paignton
12:53 Paignton to Exmouth
13:25 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
13:35 Severn Beach to Weston-Super-Mare
10/11/24 13:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
13:53 Paignton to Exmouth
13:57 Southampton Central to Cardiff Central
14:53 Paignton to London Paddington
15:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance
18:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton
18:57 Taunton to London Paddington
19:24 Swansea to London Paddington
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
20:46 Great Malvern to London Paddington
11/11/24 00:35 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington
Delayed
10:00 Par to Newquay
10:58 Newquay to Par
etc
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
November 10, 2024, 09:07:48 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[95] Thingley Junction: how does it work?
[67] [otd] 9th November 1839 - death at Box Tunnel
[51] New station at Ashley Down, Bristol
[43] Platform tickets
[41] very heavy loadings on Portsmouth bound services Saturday 7th ...
[40] A study of using public transport for someone newly arriving i...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Poll
Question: How will Exeter's first train under electric power reach there?  (Voting closed: July 06, 2020, 08:02:57)
25kv overhead from London - 11 (24.4%)
25kv overhead Devon Metro (local network) - 1 (2.2%)
Third Rail from Waterloo - 2 (4.4%)
Some other way - 0 (0%)
Won't happen within 15 years - 31 (68.9%)
Total Voters: 44

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
Author Topic: Electric trains to Exeter? How do you see it happening?  (Read 21403 times)
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7323


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2020, 19:31:54 »

It's perhaps worth noting what NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s traction decarbonisation plans are for routes to and beyond Exeter, bearing in mind that came out just after the poll and comments about the thread's original question stopped.

The route rating has all GWR (Great Western Railway) and SWR» (South Western Railway - about) main lines marked for electrification (all at 25kV where new), with the GWR routes (and Basingstoke-Salisbury) labelled "core". From Salisbury, and past Exeter, is says "ancillary" which is explained rather than defined. Basically it means the benefit is lower, so it can't be justified until later on in the programme, and it will have to keep an interim solution until then. By then the relative merits of the alternatives may have changed, so it's better not to pick a final solution. I Imagine such mixed solutions as OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") only up the banks would come into play during that interim.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 19:59:50 by stuving » Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10315


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2020, 19:43:17 »

Using only battery power, with diesel, over the Devon banks could be an interesting challenge - whether talking about either the GWR (Great Western Railway) or SWR» (South Western Railway - about) route. With stops at Totnes on the GWR route and Axminster on the SWR route, both 'in between' severe banks, the batteries would need to be powerful. 

A good place to do a trial.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4473


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2020, 19:50:09 »

Using only battery power, without diesel, over the Devon banks could be an interesting challenge - whether talking about either the GWR (Great Western Railway) or SWR» (South Western Railway - about) route. With stops at Totnes on the GWR route and Axminster on the SWR route, both 'in between' severe banks, the batteries would need to be powerful. 

The battery capacity between charging points will always be an issue, regen braking going down the banks of course can put some energy back into the battery
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2020, 20:23:13 »

The way I read it, 'fully battery-electric' means 'two modes of electricity': overhead and battery. Rather than purely battery. Though it might lead to developments which will see purely battery power being used on shorter, lower speed lines, some time in the future.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4487


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2020, 21:29:13 »

Using only battery power, without diesel, over the Devon banks could be an interesting challenge - whether talking about either the GWR (Great Western Railway) or SWR» (South Western Railway - about) route. With stops at Totnes on the GWR route and Axminster on the SWR route, both 'in between' severe banks, the batteries would need to be powerful. 

But that is not what they are proposing.  Only battery power in urban areas.  Diesel elsewhere, though the batteries could help out on the banks.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4473


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2020, 08:01:45 »

Using only battery power, without diesel, over the Devon banks could be an interesting challenge - whether talking about either the GWR (Great Western Railway) or SWR» (South Western Railway - about) route. With stops at Totnes on the GWR route and Axminster on the SWR route, both 'in between' severe banks, the batteries would need to be powerful. 

But that is not what they are proposing.  Only battery power in urban areas.  Diesel elsewhere, though the batteries could help out on the banks.

I think the solution should be a "pump storage" system, that is the batteries are present all the time to provide the traction and domestic power.   

When running in an electrified area the batteries are charged and the traction and domestic power is proved by the electrification; regen braking supplementing this.

When running in non electrified areas the traction and domestic power is provided by the batteries, a prime mover (diesel, hydrogen etc) is run up to charge the batteries when required.

Possibly localised areas of electrification installed to provide additional power or battery charging, somewhere like Temple Meads for example where a train may lay over between trips
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2020, 09:44:37 »

How much OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is there between Penzance and London? IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it's only once they join the GWML (Great Western Main Line) at Reading?

In any case, if this trial is successful, hopefully it could be used for Bristol-Thingley and the 'ugly wires in Bath' could be saved for another day.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
ray951
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 486


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2020, 09:56:02 »

How much OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is there between Penzance and London? IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it's only once they join the GWML (Great Western Main Line) at Reading?

The wires extend to Newbury.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2020, 10:21:59 »

How much OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is there between Penzance and London? IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it's only once they join the GWML (Great Western Main Line) at Reading?

The wires extend to Newbury.
Of course! Thanks.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4487


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2020, 14:29:19 »

In any case, if this trial is successful, hopefully it could be used for Bristol-Thingley and the 'ugly wires in Bath' could be saved for another day.

Not sure it would go all that way, the gap would have to be reduced a bit I think.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7323


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2020, 15:18:07 »

In any case, if this trial is successful, hopefully it could be used for Bristol-Thingley and the 'ugly wires in Bath' could be saved for another day.

Not sure it would go all that way, the gap would have to be reduced a bit I think.

What "it"? The initial plan announced is for one battery fitted to one 802/0. NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s "first base" core network for decarbonisation is OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") to Exeter, and something beyond, and presumably we will reach something of that kind. The path from the trial to there could follow several routes, both in train systems and infrastructure.

Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2020, 15:54:01 »

By 'successful' I was thinking as much of future development in battery technology as what's here today. But even this trial set up, if it can't go 30-odd miles it won't be much good between Newbury and Penzance!
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6560


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2020, 19:38:00 »

Fully battery powered trains are envisaged by Hitachi and GWR (Great Western Railway), according to a report on the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website.

Quote
Plan for UK (United Kingdom) long-distance battery-powered trains


(C) PA (Public Address) - Hitachi Rail has launched a plan to operate trains on batteries, electricity and diesel

Long distance trains could run on battery power for the first time in the UK, a manufacturer has announced.

Hitachi Rail said Great Western Railway services between London Paddington and Penzance, Cornwall, could be powered by a combination of batteries, electricity and diesel.

Using battery power at the route's non-electrified stations will reduce fuel consumption by more than 20%, improve air quality and reduce noise levels.

Testing is expected to begin in 2022.

The line from Cornwall to London is only partially electrified, with the majority of the 300 mile route requiring diesel power.

The 36 intercity express trains used on the line are bi-modes, which switch between electric and diesel power.

The firm said it would be the first time a long-distance passenger service used an alternative power source in the UK.

It is hoped a full-battery powered intercity train could be developed by the late 2040s, Hitachi Rail added.
(Continues at source)

So. Only another 30 years or so, and no mention of a buffet car.
Logged

Now, please!
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4473


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2020, 21:09:04 »

In any case, if this trial is successful, hopefully it could be used for Bristol-Thingley and the 'ugly wires in Bath' could be saved for another day.

Not sure it would go all that way, the gap would have to be reduced a bit I think.

What "it"? The initial plan announced is for one battery fitted to one 802/0. NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s "first base" core network for decarbonisation is OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") to Exeter, and something beyond, and presumably we will reach something of that kind. The path from the trial to there could follow several routes, both in train systems and infrastructure.



Electrification may become a simpler to install NR has changed its electrification design policy.  Some of the clearances, need to be able to maintain the OLE with adjacent line live and a number of other specifics required previously have been relaxed from being mandated everywhere to a Region / Route risk and performance based assessment for locations where it is not practical / beneficial to do.

A bit complex and techie to explain in a post here, sufficed to say lessons have been learned from the engineering of GWEP (Great Western Electrification Program)
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4487


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2020, 22:39:21 »

A bit complex and techie to explain in a post here, sufficed to say lessons have been learned from the engineering of GWEP (Great Western Electrification Program)

Lets hope the teams get the chance to stay together to use that learning rather than have a gap then have to learn it all over again. 
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page