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Author Topic: E-scooter trials - but rental only. What do members think?  (Read 35290 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2020, 10:20:16 am »

Quote
The seafront at Weymouth hosts a wider variety of travel modes on the road and wide esplanade
But in the case of Weymouth, fairly large areas of prohibition of bicycles. So will bikes be prohibited but e-scooters acceptable?I

I would prefer to see E scooters subjected to the same rules, restrictions and regulations as cycles. If cycles are allowed then E scooters should be. If cycles are prohibited, then so should be E scooters.
I support the use of lightweight electric transport for reasons already given, but I also dislike excessive regulation, and the army of well paid civil servants and officials whose job it is to enforce such regulations, and to find ways of adding complexity to such regulations.
Subjecting E scooters to the same restrictions on speed and weight as electrically assisted cycles has the advantage of simplicity.
Treating them as cycles as regards where and how they may be used also has the merits of simplicity.
Such regulations should be national, so as to stop each local authority from having their own regulations. (And having a well paid committee drawing up these local regulations)

Amend the relevant sections of the Highway Code by replacing the word "cycles" with "cycles, E scooters and similar vehicles"
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2020, 10:44:41 am »

I will be sticking with my pedal cycle; I am unconvinced that allowing eScooters to use cycle paths/lanes - given the potential speed differential - is a good idea. Also does the ban on eScooters using pavements extend to footways which have been changed into shared pedestrian/cycle facilities?

I would treat them as cycles.
So banned from pavements, EXCEPT when such a way is clearly designated as a shared cycleway and foot way.
Wearing a safety hat would be prudent but should not in my view be a legal requirement, just as wearing protective headgear is ADVISED but not required for cycling.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2020, 12:27:52 pm »

...clearly designated...

There, in my experience, is the rub.

It would be easy to come to the conclusion that for the most part cycle paths are designed by non-cyclists who really don't care how usable they are as long as they look good from a passing car. Too often they end in eccentric or ambiguous ways, more or less forcing users to ride on the pavement or negotiate dangerous junctions from the worst possible approach.

If a whole new class of user is to be forcibly injected on to this already-inadequate 'network', then I suggest that the number of accidents is likely to rise sharply.
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broadgage
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2020, 01:02:30 pm »

I agree that many cycle routes are very poorly designed, that however is in my view a reason to push for improvements and is not a reason to prohibit use of cycle routes by E scooters.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2020, 05:25:20 pm »

In Central London, the TfL» (Transport for London - about) bikes are a common sight. Also now increasingly common to see are the dockless hire bikes from other companies scattered inconsiderately along the pavement. I presume e-scooters will need to be docked so they can be charged otherwise they would join this clutter.

My other concern is potholes. Won't the scooters smaller wheels make the riders more vulnerable to accidents than other road users?
This scheme is specifically for docked hire scooters. I don't know if the docks incorporate chargers or if they'll be collected up from time to time and charged. The private ones currently on the road obviously don't dock, but being personal possessions they're unlikely to be left around in random places. It seems most people fold them up (the tube connecting the handlebars to the front wheel telescopes and/or folds flat) and keep them under their desks.
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2020, 08:48:03 am »

From The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
E-scooters should be legalised on roads but riding on pavements should be prohibited, the Transport Committee of MPs (Member of Parliament) has said.

Currently, privately-owned e-scooters are banned to use in the UK (United Kingdom) anywhere except on private land.

The committee argues the vehicles, which usually travel 9-15mph, could offer a green alternative to the car.

Official trials of rented e-scooters have already been announced in some places in England.
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Marlburian
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2020, 09:49:30 am »

A good idea, but one that is already being abused by people who can get them to go as fast as 50mph. What about lights at night and insurance.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2020, 09:58:32 am »

It seems eccentric that on this island, exceptionally, these vehicles are not considered safe.

I was, as is my wont, amused by the use of good ol' US Customary units. 15.5 mph is, of course, 25km/h in real money.

The issue of potholes and poor road surfaces is an important one. If a car hits a pothole, the driver is unlikely to be injured. If you hit a pothole on a two-wheeled vehicle the consequences are likely to be rather worse. I fell off an (unpowered) adult-sized scooter recently, and ended up with a shiner and four stitches in my head.

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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2020, 12:21:33 pm »

Who is going to regulate this? I can't see the police being interested, as most traffic units have been cut almost to the point of non-existence.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2020, 04:27:55 pm »

These vehicles exist and are being used on the roads. They're not even a new invention ? I first saw one about eight years ago (being ridden up the Gloucester Rd in Bristol). All that's new is the involvement of hire companies in addition to manufacturers and retailers. The sensible thing to do is to bring all slow, small, electrically powered vehicles, regardless of configuration of wheels and seats, under one set of regulations along the lines of the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPC» (Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles - webpage)) rules: 250W maximum, 25km/h cut out, no self-start, and some general fitness for purpose along the lines of BS6102 Pt1.

Legalisation would allow people to use them, or rather to carry on using them, and be covered by insurance if they cause a crash (many/most home insurance policies cover this) as well as be prosecuted for specific offences eg jumping red lights if necessary.


Edit:VickiS - Clarifying Abbreviation
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 11:48:19 am by VickiS » Logged

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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2020, 05:05:18 pm »

Quote
E-scooter operator announced for West of England trial scheme

Residents and visitors will soon be able to get around the West of England on e-scooters after Regional Mayor Tim Bowles announced the name of the company appointed to deliver the region?s e-scooter trials.

Voi Technology Ltd will be making hop-on hop-off e-scooters available in Bristol and Bath to help residents and visitors to get around central areas. E-scooters will also be available at other key locations in South Gloucestershire such as stations, university campuses, hospitals and large employment sites.

Full article
Source: WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)
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broadgage
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2020, 05:36:12 pm »

Who is going to regulate this? I can't see the police being interested, as most traffic units have been cut almost to the point of non-existence.

Very little regulation is needed in my view, no more than applies to cycles whether electrically assisted or otherwise.
Users should IMHO (in my humble opinion) be subjected to the same rules as cycles.
An E scooter should be subject to the same limits on speed and power as are applied to electrically assisted cycles.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2020, 05:41:36 pm »

It seems eccentric that on this island, exceptionally, these vehicles are not considered safe.

I was, as is my wont, amused by the use of good ol' US Customary units. 15.5 mph is, of course, 25km/h in real money.

The issue of potholes and poor road surfaces is an important one. If a car hits a pothole, the driver is unlikely to be injured. If you hit a pothole on a two-wheeled vehicle the consequences are likely to be rather worse. I fell off an (unpowered) adult-sized scooter recently, and ended up with a shiner and four stitches in my head.



I agree. There are some risks, as your unfortunate mishap illustrates, but not excessive if compared to the risks involved in cycling or walking.
The administrative class are no doubt looking forward to a whole new mode of transport to regulate and control.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
johnneyw
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2020, 06:29:30 pm »

I fell off an (unpowered) adult-sized scooter recently, and ended up with a shiner and four stitches in my head.



I'm sure I wasn't the only one to read that and think "ouch"!
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TonyK
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2020, 07:39:40 pm »

Who is going to regulate this? I can't see the police being interested, as most traffic units have been cut almost to the point of non-existence.

Very little regulation is needed in my view, no more than applies to cycles whether electrically assisted or otherwise.
Users should IMHO (in my humble opinion) be subjected to the same rules as cycles.
An E scooter should be subject to the same limits on speed and power as are applied to electrically assisted cycles.

So far, I have only seen mention of two deaths in the UK (United Kingdom) attributed to e-scooters, and in both cases, the rider was the deceased. It will need either quite a few more riders, or a couple of pedestrians to die or be badly hurt before we get anywhere close to regulation. Possibly a single MP (Member of Parliament) could be the catalyst, we shall have to wait and see.
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