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Author Topic: E-scooter trials - but rental only. What do members think?  (Read 59700 times)
stuving
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« Reply #225 on: January 18, 2023, 14:41:39 »

You may have seen that there will be a referendum in Paris later this year on whether to continue with hire e-scooters or end them. From France24:
Quote
The issue is "extremely divisive", mayor Anne Hidalgo told the weekend edition of Le Parisien newspaper, with critics saying riders show only cursory respect for the rules of the road.

They often defy bans on riding on pavements, or park without consideration, while some abandon the scooters in parks or even toss them into the Seine river.

Fans meanwhile praise the zippy fleets -- totalling 15,000 scooters operated by companies Lime, Dott and Tier -- as a fast, non-polluting alternative to cars or crowded public transport.

Hidalgo said Paris residents would be asked "a very simple question" in the referendum planned for April 2: "Do we or don't we continue with free-floating rental scooters?"

The mayor said she herself was leaning towards a ban but would "respect Parisians' vote".

A ban would make Paris an exception among major cities...

That may not be a such a surprise, given the problems and complaints they give rise to. But this?:
Quote
Hidalgo told Le Parisien meanwhile that privately owned scooters, also hugely popular in the capital, were not targeted in the referendum. They are "not a problem", she said.

Of course here those private scooters you come across are being ridden illegally, so you can hardly expect them to be responsible users. Will that biassed impression dictate what happens here? 

When I was last in Paris (2019), I did find some very crowded bits of pedestrian space (mostly corners of squares) where cyclists already made things scary by coming at you from unexpected directions. Scooters did make that worse, just by being slightly different in size, shape, speed etc. But that's Paris - the environment isn't the same in Bristol (or Wokingham!) so the the issues won't be quite the same either.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 16:30:35 by stuving » Logged
TonyK
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« Reply #226 on: January 18, 2023, 16:18:27 »

When I was last in Paris (2019), I did find some very crowded bits of pedestrian space (mostly corners of squares) where cyclists already made things scary by coming at you from unexpected directions. Scooters did make that worse, just by being slightly different in size, shape, speed etc. But that's Paris - the environment isn't the same in Bristol (or Wokingham!) so the the issues won't be quite the same wither.


I was in Paris last July. I did see scooters, but not in a way that seemed obstructive or threatening in any way. I admit to having kept to the wide open spaces largely, which may have made a difference.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #227 on: January 18, 2023, 17:48:11 »

It's not clear from that Bristol Post whether the new hire scheme would run alongside or replace the Voi scheme.
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Marlburian
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« Reply #228 on: February 08, 2023, 08:11:05 »

My local councillor has called for police action.
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GBM
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« Reply #229 on: February 08, 2023, 12:23:06 »

See a few going around Truro and Penzance.  Not aware of any e-scooter hire locally.

No apparent action by the few Police we currently have.
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Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
broadgage
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« Reply #230 on: March 08, 2023, 18:47:03 »

This report states that 14 year old riding a privately owned E-scooter has been convicted after a fatal accident.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-64892358

This is said to be the first pedestrian fatality resulting from E-scooter use, which would seem to confirm my view that the risks are so small as to be acceptable. We do accept the use of cycles after all, a somewhat comparable transport mode. Cycles are not meant to be used on the pavement, but enforcement of this is rare.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #231 on: March 08, 2023, 18:55:43 »

Glad it wasn't your mother, Broadgage.

Sorry, one further death is a death that need not have happened.
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broadgage
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« Reply #232 on: March 08, 2023, 21:06:22 »

Glad it wasn't your mother, Broadgage.

Sorry, one further death is a death that need not have happened.

True, but society seems to tolerate deaths caused by cycles, horses, mobility scooters, and oversize pedestrians despite the fact that those deaths "need not have happened" in most cases.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bobm
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« Reply #233 on: March 08, 2023, 21:37:55 »

Part of the problem is we muddied the waters by allowing shared pedestrian and cycle pavements.  Since then it seems we have some cyclists regarding all pavements as accessible. 

For reasons I don’t understand one of my neighbours has a gate which opens out onto
the street.  It is only a matter of time before it blows open in the wind in front of a cycle or scooter.
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broadgage
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« Reply #234 on: March 09, 2023, 06:09:13 »

Near me, there is a shared footpath and cycleway beside a busy road but generally separated therefrom. This results in frequent complaints about "cycling on the footpath" despite signs indicating that this is permitted.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
CyclingSid
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« Reply #235 on: March 09, 2023, 07:01:47 »

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Cycles are not meant to be used on the pavement, but enforcement of this is rare.

Reason: https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/support-for-police-discretion-when-responding-to-people-cycling-on-the-pavement

Which, in general, means because of lack of resources it generally is not enforced (except just before local government elections?)
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #236 on: March 09, 2023, 07:31:43 »

I find that the motorist/cyclist on the roads debate is one best avoided as both sides have a total position of entitlement and an unshakeable conviction of the righteousness of their own cause - there never seems to be room for compromise.

It's worrying that this debate now seems to be expanding to cyclists/pedestrians on pavements, with the addition of scooters which seem to add nothing positive but instead present danger to their riders and all other pedestrians/motorists/cyclists whichever carriageway they use.

I think I may invest in something which allows me to hover 6 ft above both roads and pavements, all I will need to worry about then is the occasional pigeon.
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TonyK
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« Reply #237 on: March 09, 2023, 08:09:06 »

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Cycles are not meant to be used on the pavement, but enforcement of this is rare.

Reason: https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/support-for-police-discretion-when-responding-to-people-cycling-on-the-pavement

Which, in general, means because of lack of resources it generally is not enforced (except just before local government elections?)

It is always enforced when someone dies. We are in the new normal situation where, when the horse bolts, someone from the police or council will pop round a couple of days later to shut the stable door.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #238 on: March 09, 2023, 11:11:52 »

Part of the problem is we muddied the waters by allowing shared pedestrian and cycle pavements.  Since then it seems we have some cyclists regarding all pavements as accessible. 
And not just allowing but encouraging. The root of the problem is that roads (carriageways) have become inhospitable for cyclists and pedestrians, squeezing them all together onto the pavements, which often aren't big enough just for pedestrians never mind cyclists too.
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Marlburian
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« Reply #239 on: March 09, 2023, 11:27:08 »

This report states that 14 year old riding a privately owned E-scooter has been convicted after a fatal accident.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-64892358

This is said to be the first pedestrian fatality resulting from E-scooter use, which would seem to confirm my view that the risks are so small as to be acceptable. We do accept the use of cycles after all, a somewhat comparable transport mode. Cycles are not meant to be used on the pavement, but enforcement of this is rare.

On another forum to which I belong there was some debate about the case of a pedestrian whose reaction to a cyclist resulted in the latter's death: Sky News

In that forum I myself compared the two sentences, without making any judgement, though I did refer to the father's action in buying the e-scooter.
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