Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 03:15 19 Mar 2024
- Potholes leave nations' roads at 'breaking point'
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - WWRUG AGM
23/03/24 - Trains restart - Minehead
02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber

No 'On This Day' events reported for 19th Mar

Train RunningDelayed
02:24 Reading to London Paddington
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 25/03 16:00 Easter Escape - to where?
Closed 2024-03-16 Should our rail network go cashless
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 19, 2024, 03:28:28 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[99] Where would you recommend for an Easter Escape?
[99] More travels ... more looking at how others do it ...
[95] M25 motorway issue: a most illuminating Twitter thread.
[80] Briefing on forthcoming changes - from GWR on 14.3.2024
[51] Europeran Rail Timetable
[51] Improvements at three Berkshire stations
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Boris Johnson: TfL driverless trains 'should be funding condition' - BBC  (Read 6983 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40644



View Profile WWW Email
« on: July 07, 2020, 06:20:37 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
Allowing driverless trains should be a condition of any future funding of Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)), Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.

In May, TfL secured £1.6bn in emergency funding to keep Tube and bus services running until September.
There are currently no driverless trains on the London Underground.

Train drivers' union Aslef dismissed Mr Johnston's call saying: “As always, Boris Johnson is talking nonsense about driverless trains."

"Slashing government funding to TfL means that they cannot afford the signalling upgrade and other technology that would be needed for driverless trains," a spokesman said.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1912


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2020, 06:49:33 »

Like driverless government?
Logged
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1453


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 08:42:43 »

Cue the 'abolish the unions' cry.  Pointless having unions as they only support their members?
It's always been a battle between a Tory government vs Union; nothing unexpected.
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 508


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2020, 11:27:10 »

Boris is trolling the Mayor and the unions.

TfL» (Transport for London - about) needs the money. There's little/no chance it means driverless trains for many years, but if he gives in, he's sold the drivers out, and bang go a few more votes for Labour. If TfL go bust, then he's demonstrated Labour can't be trusted to run things.
 
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 11:36:59 »

Are we talking overground only? I thought trains on some TfL» (Transport for London - about) underground lines had long been effectively driverless; they have a driver sitting in the cab because it's thought to be reassuring to the public, and presumably also to respond to emergencies and queries, but the train driving is automatic.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10080


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 12:13:33 »

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Gordon the Blue Engine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 752


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2020, 13:38:24 »

There’s the Docklands Light Railway of course, which is a driverless, automated railway system including several different overlapping routes including flat junctions etc. 

So I think it’s reasonable to explore this concept elsewhere within TfL» (Transport for London - about)
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2020, 14:53:35 »

Fully automated road vehicles without so much as a steering wheel are just around the corner, according to the motor industry; the actual timescale might be more akin to that for cold fusion. Nevertheless, in the more controlled environment of rail, this should be easier to deliver, so it would be foolish for operators, manufacturers and regulators not to be considering it. In fact, we know from these august pages that the wider industry has already started driverless operation; not only DLR (Docklands Light Railway) but there's a link somewhere to an Australian freight line operating driverless. At some point, the technology, economics and public acceptance are all going to line up, and it might even be within a lifetime.

However, I'm extremely suspicious of political insistence on it, especially right now. Give the rail industry encouragement, a regulatory framework and funds if needed (I'm sure they will be) to explore it and it will happen in time. And of all the things that could need doing now on TfL» (Transport for London - about) or the wider network, this would be a very low priority.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4348


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 17:05:55 »

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

From the info I can remember for the TLP Core ATO (Automatic Train Operation) system the driver gives the ATO system the close door and proceed instruction by pressing 2 buttons on the desk.  The ATO closes the doors and the drive releases the buttons, there is an emergency stop.

The train is then controlled by the ATO which stops the train in the platform and opens the doors.

The driver can take over when required, to get the 24 TPH (trains per hour) in the TLP core a human cannot respond quick enough to have that density of service we humans are too cautious.

I cannot imagine the Tube system be currently that different.

The difference on the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) is the Train Captain can close the doors from any of the doors on the train, and is available to drive if required.

I think we the travelling public will always want a staff presence on a train for the foreseeable future
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
patch38
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 651


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2020, 17:21:27 »

I looked up the TLA (three letter acronym) for TLP but it seems to be MIA. Do please enlighten us.  Wink Grin
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7723



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2020, 18:48:35 »

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

£55,000 a year to "technically" drive a train by opening & closing the doors?

Where do I sign up? 🙄
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1530



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2020, 18:58:14 »

Having used the Skytrain in Vancouver for a week two years ago that seemed to work very well with driverless trains.

I think other forum members are familiar with the system too. What do they think  ?
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7148


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2020, 19:28:53 »

Having used the Skytrain in Vancouver for a week two years ago that seemed to work very well with driverless trains.

I think other forum members are familiar with the system too. What do they think  ?

That was the original Seltrac implementation, and later versions of it are already running the Jubliee and Northern lines, and will soon also run all the sub-surface lines.  So what does the driver do? I'm not sure - but not drive the train, antway.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10080


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2020, 19:53:53 »

£55,000 a year to "technically" drive a train by opening & closing the doors?

Where do I sign up? 🙄

This is the best place to start looking: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5314


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2020, 10:31:42 »

I don’t think anyone is suggesting full “driverless” ie with no one in the cab for any TfL» (Transport for London - about) route, underground, overground or anywhere on national rail.

But taking the underground routes, they’re all gradually being resignalled to attended automatic operation, which was fitted on the Victoria Line from new, let’s not forget.

I think “unattended” would need a more tightly controlled access to the track, with more platform edge doors.  But look at the current criticism of DLR (Docklands Light Railway) for not having someone looking out the front...

I’d agree this is more political spin than substance.

Paul

Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page