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Author Topic: Welsh Government public transport guidelines  (Read 450 times)
grahame
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« on: July 30, 2020, 10:37:17 am »

From North Wales Live

Quote
Things you'll no longer be able to do on public transport in Wales

People in Wales will be banned from talking on the phone, singing, eating and reading newspapers while travelling on public transport in a bid to contain coronavirus.

The Welsh government has issued guidelines to people catching a train or bus in a bid to limit the spread of coronavirus.

The directive, published this week, says a number of new measures have been introduced including warning people not to run for buses.

It states that people should travel in "relative silence" to restrict the chance of "aerosol transmission".

The advice says:
* Travel in relative silence - no ‘loud’ activities in public transport (like singing) (this would be to reduce potential aerosol transmission)
* Do not use mobile ‘phones for talk on public transport except in an emergency (aerosol transmission)
* No running in transport hubs (aerosol transmission)
* Don’t run for the bus (aerosol transmission) – drivers to be alert and wait
* No newspapers
* Do not consume food or drink on public transport (except for example on medical grounds)

The measures are included in a document called Restarting Public Transport: Guidance for Operators.

It also advises people to only travel if essential and warns people not to travel if they feel unwell, even with mild symptoms.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2020, 12:25:41 pm »

This isn’t the first time that this story has done the rounds, and the last time I wondered whether the announcement had been postponed from April 1st. I’m still not convinced that it isn’t now but, if true, perhaps it goes to show how divorced from the real world politicians and civil servants often become.

Can you actually the vast majority of people under 35 not using their phones?

Can you imagine a trainload of triumphant rugby supporters going home from Cardiff to Swansea without singing and shouting?

Does chewing gum count as eating?

So newspapers are banned. What about magazines? What about books? Can you read a hard copy version of The Bible but not the Jewish Chronicle? That'll go down well...

And most important of all, who is going to enforce any of this?

Now don’t get me wrong – I am not falling into the trap of asking for a weighty tome of definitions (especially in written report form – might be confused for a newspaper....) that would only throw up as many anomalies as it sought to clear up. I am merely pointing out the inherent absurdities in this story taken at face value.

And it might not just be triumphant rugby fans – I am reminded of a line from The Navy Lark delivered by Sub-Lt Phillips, no doubt to Able Seaman Goldsteam:

“I’ve known many Welshmen who couldn’t sing. But never one who didn’t”  Smiley
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stuving
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2020, 12:55:11 pm »

Yes, but ... if you read the words in that extract, they contradict themselves twice.

First is says "People in Wales will be banned from talking ...", then it's "The advice says" - now, advice isn't a ban, is it? And later on it says "The measures are included in a document called Restarting Public Transport: Guidance for Operators.", so it's not even addressed directly to the public. I couldn't find anything that was - there's a link, but it just leads round in a loop.

In fact it follows .gov.uk quite closely, with long document listing things operators might do both internally and in what they tell passengers. It ends with a list of "Additional mitigations in public transport where 2 metre physical distancing is difficult or not possible", and again some don't directly involve the public. Within that, you find:
Quote
Administrative controls
  • Notices about queuing and which seats to use
  • Enhance “Travel Safer” messages to “Work Remotely” where possible
  • Messaging around keeping 2m apart in transport hubs, on platforms and within carriages/buses where possible
  • Travel in relative silence - no ‘loud’ activities in public transport (like singing) (this would be to reduce potential aerosol transmission)
  • Do not use mobile ‘phones for talk on public transport except in an emergency (aerosol transmission)
  • No running in transport hubs (aerosol transmission)
  • Don’t run for the bus (aerosol transmission) – drivers to be alert and wait
  • No newspapers
  • Do not consume food or drink on public transport (except for example on medical grounds)
  • Enhance training for bus drivers and cleaning staff about how to clean their vehicles more effectively.
  • Booked seats only available (generally trains: buses and coaches where possible) – enforced by security staff (not transport staff)

So, read pedantically, it's suggesting operators should not to run for the bus etc. - not even advising then to ask passengers to so refrain.

But then, no-one ever really reads things, do they?
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phile
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2020, 01:02:11 pm »

These items were just extracts from a long list of possible restrictions the Welsh Government produced and made available to TFW as different things they could consider and take up if they so wished and nothing set in stone.  Because of the nature of the items a story was made out of it and spread with people believing it as gospel.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2020, 03:43:38 pm »

This isn’t the first time that this story has done the rounds, and the last time I wondered whether the announcement had been postponed from April 1st. I’m still not convinced that it isn’t now but, if true, perhaps it goes to show how divorced from the real world politicians and civil servants often become.

Can you actually the vast majority of people under 35 not using their phones?

Can you imagine a trainload of triumphant rugby supporters going home from Cardiff to Swansea without singing and shouting?

Does chewing gum count as eating?

So newspapers are banned. What about magazines? What about books? Can you read a hard copy version of The Bible but not the Jewish Chronicle? That'll go down well...

And most important of all, who is going to enforce any of this?

Now don’t get me wrong – I am not falling into the trap of asking for a weighty tome of definitions (especially in written report form – might be confused for a newspaper....) that would only throw up as many anomalies as it sought to clear up. I am merely pointing out the inherent absurdities in this story taken at face value.

And it might not just be triumphant rugby fans – I am reminded of a line from The Navy Lark delivered by Sub-Lt Phillips, no doubt to Able Seaman Goldsteam:

“I’ve known many Welshmen who couldn’t sing. But never one who didn’t”  Smiley


If there was an option to ban Welsh rugby fans from talking and singing for at least a month after a victory over England I would definitely support it!!!

(Thankfully a rare occurrence these days!!!)  Wink
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2020, 08:27:54 pm »

Quote from: stuving
Yes, but ... if you read the words in that extract, they contradict themselves twice.

...

But then, no-one ever really reads things, do they?

Quote from: phile
These items were just extracts from a long list of possible restrictions the Welsh Government produced and made available to TFW as different things they could consider and take up if they so wished and nothing set in stone.  Because of the nature of the items a story was made out of it and spread with people believing it as gospel.

You will of course notice that the words "if true" appeared together in my first paragraph, which I hoped might have indicated the way my thoughts were going as I laid into the piece.

Looks like another example of my lighthearted mickey-taking has fallen flat on its arse again... Wink

Quote from: TaplowGreen
If there was an option to ban Welsh rugby fans from talking and singing for at least a month after a victory over England I would definitely support it!!!

As someone who was married to a Weslh woman for 24 years I fully nderstand where you're coming from...
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Trowres
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 11:42:26 pm »

<...>

Can you actually the vast majority of people under 35 not using their phones?

Can you imagine a trainload of triumphant rugby supporters going home from Cardiff to Swansea without singing and shouting?

<...>

I recall strident support on this forum for upholding the peacefulness of the "Quiet Carriage", with some very strict interpretations of what "quiet" meant for talking and mobile phone use.

I'm not making an attack on anyone here, but this does seem to highlight some interesting features about the subtle dividing line between a welcome policy and an object of ridicule. Is this due to:-
  • who is requesting / prescribing?
  • the tangibility of the benefit?
  • something else?
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 09:33:59 am »

Something else.

If you want to travel in virtual silence, you travel in the quiet coach. If you want to make a row, or hear other people making a row, or don't mind them making a row, then you make a different choice.

In a way its exactly the same form of choice that travelling first or standard class is.

First class only trains never really caught on in the UK and we haven't had any in normal public service for many years - basically they didn't get enough bums on seats to make them financially worthwhile. The railway industry might find a similar thing happening if they insisted on a vow of silence from travellers.
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Alan Pettitt
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 11:00:48 am »

I think the reference to newspapers is in regards to piles of free newspapers available on buses and trains, which get picked up, put down, picked up again by another person, put down again, ad infinitum.
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grahame
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 04:54:30 pm »

Circular email ... subject Essential travel only on our Trains in Wales from Transport for Wales, received this a.m.

Quote
Hi Customer,

This is just a reminder that in Wales our trains are still only for essential travel and key workers. Please always Travel Safer:

* Stay safe - in Wales only travel if it’s essential, to help those with no other option, and don’t travel if you’re feeling unwell
* Avoid busy periods - try not to touch surfaces like buttons, doors or your face and try to avoid eating.
* Follow our latest travel advice, stay 2 metres apart, wash your hands or use hand sanitiser and wear a face covering.
* Exercise while you travel - walk or cycle for short journeys if you can.
* Respect our staff and other passengers at all times.

Also, don’t forget you must wear a face covering on public transport and put it on before travelling, unless you’re exempt.
Please be respectful, not everyone can wear a face covering. For guidance visit trc.cymru/face-coverings.
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