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Author Topic: "They don't have major project delays like this in the rest of Europe" ...?  (Read 10191 times)
ellendune
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2015, 08:19:09 am »

What is true is that SNCF are pursuing their programme of level crossing closure much more actively than NR (quelle surprise!). The next two crossing from PN16 at St Gilles were closed about five years ago, and replaced by a bridge, though the traffic (even in the holiday season) hardly makes that vital. Note that there are still barriers, even for the bridge...

Is that all down to NR or is it that SNCF don't have to pander to local NIMBYs. 
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stuving
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2015, 04:57:01 pm »

What is true is that SNCF are pursuing their programme of level crossing closure much more actively than NR (quelle surprise!). The next two crossing from PN16 at St Gilles were closed about five years ago, and replaced by a bridge, though the traffic (even in the holiday season) hardly makes that vital. Note that there are still barriers, even for the bridge...

Is that all down to NR or is it that SNCF don't have to pander to local NIMBYs. 

Hard to say, really, partly due to the lack of good data, but I think it has more to do with the integrated nature of French government (including SNCF). The NIMBYs, and they do exist, are likely to be well represented inside government, especially at the lowest (commune) level which is responsible for minor roads.

It's not the size of the budget - SNCF R^seau refer to ^35 or 50M a year, and say a closure (not clearly defined) costs ^3-10M. SNCF only contributes part of the cost, so I suspect the various levels of government may be putting in more than here. Note also that ^10M upper cost figure - that should apply to a bridge over or under a major road. If it does, that bears out the suggestion that such civil engineering jobs cost a lot more here than elsewhere in Europe (and France in particular).

Government does more direct supervision of SNCF and other actors, rather than pretending they are independent and negotiating contracts with them. That's partly a different mindset, and partly that SNCF has always been a part of government, and has never had its legal status changed by privatisation or "privatisation". Of course being nore integrated with government doesn't necessarily help.

In terms of administrative efficiency or complexity, the French model is famous for being slow and cumbersome, with lots of overlapping responsibilities. For level crossing there is a coordinating body, created in 1997, headed by the ministry (of ecology, sustainable development, and energy - which now includes transport). Two directorates of this ministry supervise SNCF: transport infrastructure (for SNCF R^seau) and transport services  (for SNCF Mobilit^s). This coordinating group for the improvement of safety at level crossings includes representation from SNCF, regions, other local government, research bodies, etc. And during the last year, at least two more committees have been created by the transport minister to do with railway safety in general or level crossings.

But once it decides to do something, it can be very effective. Think about roundabouts or cycle paths, both of which were rare in France not long ago (about 25 years and 15 years respectively). Then they were identified centrally as "good things", and slowly started to appear all over the country. Now both are more common than they are here - there's a kind of momentum that keeps the process going. But having said that, any one level crossing closure can still take many years.

I can think of two specific features of the French system that may contribute. On is the prefect and prefecture, meaning that a significant part of central government is split into 100 local parts, headed by a kind of generalised deputy minister. That allows central government to coordinate local government in a very detailed way. The second is that consultations and enquiries seem to be less independent - being run by the central government departments or agencies. So yes, there is local consultation, but it's less of an adversarial either/or decision, more of an enquiry to find the "best" solution.
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Thatcham Crossing
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2015, 09:01:56 pm »

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That wasn't this line, which is entirely OHLE-free. The main line south to La Roche sur Yon is electrified, but double track, and the nearest single line that is must be one from there to Les Sables d'Olonne.

I think it was somewhere between La Roche sur Yon and Les Sables, but couldn't be 100% certain. The site we were heading to (La Garangeoire, near St. Julien des Landes) is not very far north of where that line runs.
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stuving
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2015, 12:29:28 pm »

Well, the line did reopen on time (as revised) on Sunday 30th August. And having understandably been very angry, and rude, about the last-minute deferment, even the local politicians seem to have joined in the smiles and self-congratulation on the day (though that mood was lost soon after, as the line was closed in Nantes due to a suicide on the track).
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stuving
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 08:59:06 pm »

As a footnote to the reopening (well, I hope it's not the first of a series) a train derailed at Sainte-Pazanne station on October 12th. This was an X73500 (Banana) single-car TER, and the points changed underneath it at a crossover.

This was due to a wrong-side track circuit failure, or "d^shuntage furtif", which is a known problem with this train type. They are quite light, and short (only four axles), and run often on old track with few trains (though that is not true at this site) and none heavy enough to really strip rust off. So a new rule has been imposed that they must not run alone, only in multiple - causing an instant shortage.

I gather that that TCAs (gizmos that persuade the track circuit detector the block is occupied) are not much used in France, and not fitted on these ones.
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2020, 04:34:28 pm »

For other delayed projects on the continent of Europe one has to look no further than the saga of Berlin Brandenburg Airport - the planned new airport being built next to the existing Sch^nefeld airport to replace it and Tegel.

It was supposed to open in 2010 and now it looks as if it won't be ready before 2019...

It wasn't (ready before 2019) but plan are that it's ready before 2021. From FlightGlobal

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Lufthansa Group intends to transfer its mainline operations from Berlin Tegel to the German capital’s new Brandenburg airport a week after the long-delayed opening on 31 October [2020].

The airline group says Lufthansa, Austrian Airlines, Swiss and Brussels Airlines will start operating from Brandenburg on 8 November.
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2020, 08:37:37 am »

For other delayed projects on the continent of Europe one has to look no further than the saga of Berlin Brandenburg Airport - the planned new airport being built next to the existing Schonefeld airport to replace it and Tegel.

It was supposed to open in 2010 and now it looks as if it won't be ready before 2019...

Finally welcomes passengers tomorrow - Bloomberg reports

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Berlin?s new airport will finally welcome passengers after an eight-year delay, opening its doors just as fallout from the coronavirus hammers travel demand.

The limestone floors have been polished smooth, the ticket counters buffed and shops stocked with wares as the Berlin Brandenburg Willy Brandt Airport ? known by its airport code BER ? prepares for its inaugural flight on Saturday.

But the facility will just be a stunted version of the original plan. A second terminal won?t open for now because it?s not needed in the midst of the crisis.
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2020, 08:41:46 pm »


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A second terminal won?t open for now because it?s not needed in the midst of the crisis.

Terminal 2 may not be opening just yet but the old Schonefeld airport terminal has been renamed Terminal 5 and will remain open until the opening of Terminal 3 which is planned to be 2030.
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ellendune
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2020, 09:26:32 pm »

I was booked on a flight there in 2012. At the last minute it was cancelled and replaced with a flight to Tegel. 
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2020, 06:08:16 pm »


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A second terminal won?t open for now because it?s not needed in the midst of the crisis.

Terminal 2 may not be opening just yet but the old Schonefeld airport terminal has been renamed Terminal 5 and will remain open until the opening of Terminal 3 which is planned to be 2030.

I quite liked flying to and from Schonefeld airport, always reminded me of Gatwick 40 years ago  Grin
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2020, 07:46:59 pm »


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A second terminal won?t open for now because it?s not needed in the midst of the crisis.

Terminal 2 may not be opening just yet but the old Schonefeld airport terminal has been renamed Terminal 5 and will remain open until the opening of Terminal 3 which is planned to be 2030.

I quite liked flying to and from Schonefeld airport, always reminded me of Gatwick 40 years ago  Grin

All of my Berlin flights have been through Schonefeld. I seem to remember the only catering options after passport control were Burger King, a bar, Duty Free and a newsagent. I hope the new terminal has more choice. Oh, and I hope it has more seats too.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2020, 09:39:56 pm »

My only flight to and from Berlin was through Schonefeld which I think was originally the East German airport for Berlin.  It had probably already been modernised a lot when I was there about 13 years ago and I remember it as being a reasonably up to date airport with good rail and SBahn connection to central Berlin. I opted for the SBahn both ways and was pleased that I did as it provided some interesting views of the city. I wonder if the converted rail carriage cafe is still there near the entrance by the covered walkway leading to the station(s)?
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stuving
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2020, 11:12:54 pm »

My only flight to and from Berlin was through Schonefeld which I think was originally the East German airport for Berlin.  It had probably already been modernised a lot when I was there about 13 years ago and I remember it as being a reasonably up to date airport with good rail and SBahn connection to central Berlin. I opted for the SBahn both ways and was pleased that I did as it provided some interesting views of the city. I wonder if the converted rail carriage cafe is still there near the entrance by the covered walkway leading to the station(s)?

Good heavens no - even "permanent" airport buildings get rebuilt every few years, and these "temporary" ones get moved every year or two. That "Die S-Bahn" was moved from by Terminal C to Terminal D when that was built, then replaced by something bigger - and more German - and wooden (or course). Which was then replaced by something bigger on the car park. And by now? Who kones?

I flew to Berlin twice, and only ever used Tegel, which was of course odd in its own way. I never actually walked to or from it, which was quite feasible if only from Charlottenburg-Nord. Nor did I go by train (S- or U-), which was strangely never possible. So it was the bus (109 or X9).
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johnneyw
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2020, 12:50:57 am »


Good heavens no - even "permanent" airport buildings get rebuilt every few years, and these "temporary" ones get moved every year or two. That "Die S-Bahn" was moved from by Terminal C to Terminal D when that was built, then replaced by something bigger - and more German - and wooden (or course). Which was then replaced by something bigger on the car park. And by now? Who kones?

I had a quick look on TripAdvisor which had Die esS Bahn's most recent location being at Tegel.  It seems to still be able to move a bit!
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2020, 10:37:14 pm »

That "Die S-Bahn" was moved from by Terminal C to Terminal D when that was built, then replaced by something bigger - and more German - and wooden (or course). Which was then replaced by something bigger on the car park. And by now? Who kones?

The old railway carriage that I remember walking past was removed in 2015.
From Der Tagesspiegel and translated by Google

Quote
The EsS-Bahn in Sch?nefeld is gone
The "EsS-Bahn" still exists in Tegel, but has disappeared at Sch?nefeld Airport. The days of other converted trains are also numbered - at least in Berlin.
For many who land in Berlin by plane, it has cult status: the currywurst stall called EsS-Bahn, which is right in front of the Tegel and Sch?nefeld airports. At both locations, the Berlin sausage specialty is served from a historic S-Bahn railcar from the ?Stadtbahn? series from the 1920s. This is now a tradition: last week the converted wagon stationed in Tegel celebrated its 15th anniversary.

The disappointment for fans of the Berlin institution is all the greater: The EsS-Bahn in Sch?nefeld no longer exists. The curry sausage train at Sch?nefeld Airport was already in operation at the end of June, and the wagon, which had space for around 30 guests, was removed on the night of last Sunday. Instead, there is a Witty's snack stand in the same place in front of Terminal A. It doesn't have an unusual design, but it does advertise organic curry sausage. Airport press spokesman Lars Wagner explains that the contract for the EsS-Bahn in Sch?nefeld has simply expired. Wagner does not comment on the question of why it was not extended. "At least in Tegel we are still very happy about the EsS-Bahn."
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