Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 01:55 19 Mar 2024
* Potholes leave nations' roads at 'breaking point'
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - WWRUG AGM
23/03/24 - Trains restart - Minehead
02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber

No 'On This Day' events reported for 19th Mar

Train RunningNo cancellations or delays
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 25/03 16:00 Easter Escape - to where?
Closed 2024-03-16 Should our rail network go cashless
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 19, 2024, 02:09:46 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[99] Where would you recommend for an Easter Escape?
[99] More travels ... more looking at how others do it ...
[95] M25 motorway issue: a most illuminating Twitter thread.
[80] Briefing on forthcoming changes - from GWR on 14.3.2024
[51] Europeran Rail Timetable
[51] Improvements at three Berkshire stations
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12
  Print  
Author Topic: HST derailment, near Stonehaven, 12th August 2020  (Read 23890 times)
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2020, 14:20:05 »

I don't think appropriate to post that photograph on here.  Its been removed from lots of other sites.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5396



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2020, 14:31:15 »

I don't think appropriate to post that photograph on here.  Its been removed from lots of other sites.

Not certain that I agree, in all but extreme cases I believe in freedom of speech, which customarily includes pictures as well as actual speech.
IMHO (in my humble opinion) it is not generally appropriate to publish pictures of the dead or seriously injured, but I see no such in the image in the preceding post.
Nor should pictures that seriously invade privacy be published, for example of someone unclothed as a result of emergency or disaster, but again I see no such.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40644



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2020, 14:38:48 »

I don't think appropriate to post that photograph on here.  Its been removed from lots of other sites.

I have noted it in a private thread for those of us who look after moderation, but personally much more in line with Broadgage.

I note the picture was posted on the forum by one of our moderator team, so that makes three of us currently well versed and currently active posters.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Phantom
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 483



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2020, 15:27:28 »

Photo of one of the engines here

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12381187/train-aberdeenshire-stonehaven-derailed/
Logged
southwest
Guest
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2020, 15:38:49 »

Very sad and worrying time for those involved and their families.  Important not to speculate about anything, especially as the media are using forum's as sources.  I do hope this isn't a "Concorde" moment for the HST (High Speed Train) after 42 years.
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6432


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2020, 15:46:00 »

I don't think appropriate to post that photograph on here.  Its been removed from lots of other sites.

I posted, the picture initially, then removed it very soon afterwards. I thought long and hard and looked for confirmation before posting it again. It is in the public domain, and now shown on a number of bona fide news sites. I am not after an argument about free speech or anything, just explaining my reasoning. I was moved by it and the clearer understanding of what an awful event this is, but will keep watching, and may change my mind.
Logged

Now, please!
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18887



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2020, 15:56:03 »

The Scotsman are now reporting "three feared dead," citing the Press Association, a fourth person is "missing." Cry
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/stonehaven-three-feared-dead-after-scotrail-train-derailment-aberdeenshire-2939946

And their leader page has the image posted here earlier. What it shows is deeply troubling. One carriage upside down and one seemingly crushed above the window line.

EDIT. Apologies to the subsequent poster who quoted me. I thought I was editing my own post. I deleted the entire thing in error. Please repost.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 16:01:37 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5396



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2020, 16:47:50 »

Latest reports on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website state 3 dead. Very sad, the bereaved are no doubt in all our minds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53751678

And slightly later reports on channel 5 TV news, confirm 3 dead, one of whome is reported to be the train driver.  Cry
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 17:04:10 by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6432


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2020, 17:16:41 »


And slightly later reports on channel 5 TV news, confirm 3 dead, one of whome is reported to be the train driver.  Cry

Sadly, that appears to be the case now that matters are becoming clearer. Reports now say that everyone has been accounted for.
Logged

Now, please!
southwest
Guest
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2020, 17:38:10 »

Very sad 3 dead, 6 injured. Even more worrying is the aerial footage on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News which shows indeed a Mk3 caught fire, another is badly crushed with two laying on top. Something has indeed gone really wrong, as i've said previously I do hope this isn't a "Concorde" style moment that ruins the HST (High Speed Train) almost perfect record.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7148


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2020, 17:49:30 »

Very sad 3 dead, 6 injured. Even more worrying is the aerial footage on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News which shows indeed a Mk3 caught fire, another is badly crushed with two laying on top. Something has indeed gone really wrong, as i've said previously I do hope this isn't a "Concorde" style moment that ruins the HST (High Speed Train) almost perfect record.

This reminds me of Polmont, in that it's a derailment in a cutting. That greatly increases the risk that a vehicle running off the track will hit something really solid and its front end just stop - the cutting wall. Unfortunately cutting walls are also well placed to cause derailments by slipping onto the track.
Logged
Phantom
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 483



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2020, 19:25:29 »

Very sad 3 dead, 6 injured. Even more worrying is the aerial footage on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News which shows indeed a Mk3 caught fire, another is badly crushed with two laying on top. Something has indeed gone really wrong, as i've said previously I do hope this isn't a "Concorde" style moment that ruins the HST (High Speed Train) almost perfect record.

This reminds me of Polmont, in that it's a derailment in a cutting. That greatly increases the risk that a vehicle running off the track will hit something really solid and its front end just stop - the cutting wall. Unfortunately cutting walls are also well placed to cause derailments by slipping onto the track.

From the BBC live reporting:

The railway line between Aberdeen and Dundee was upgraded in a £9m Network Rail project last year.

Over six weekends in February and March, engineers renewed 2,500m of track at a number of locations along the line between the two cities.

This included improvements to the level crossing at Carmont, near where the passenger train derailed.

The project involved installing a total of 3,500 new concrete sleepers and 2,500m of rail.
Logged
onthecushions
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 977


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2020, 21:02:26 »


It's heartbreaking to see those wonderful mark 3's crushed, burnt and tossed aside, when they daily for 36 years, carried me to work and around the West, in air conditioned comfort, perfect safety and quietness (at least in coach A).

I can't speculate but I do observe from approved images that the track either side of the wreck appears undisturbed so that the entire accident is contained within a car's length. The leading power car appears to be facing rearwards. Only one buckeye coupling has survived. Diesel is difficult to ignite and is only spilled in really catastrophic circumstances like Ladbroke Grove, where a friend of mine was present next to the burning coach. 79mm of rain fell in the area in four hours.

The brave driver and guard gave their lives in the public service just as much as the NHS COVID workers.

OTC
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5396



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2020, 22:20:28 »

Latest reports on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) TV news at 22-00, confirmed earlier reports of 3 fatalities, and 6 injured.
The only new news was that only 9 persons were on board, so EVERY person was either killed or injured.

It is therefore most fortunate that the train was so slightly loaded, had it been full a death toll in the dozens would seem probable.

What I find particularly shocking is not the actual occurrence of the accident, they can never be entirely eliminated, but the scale of the damage to modernish stock. One coach is substantially destroyed a very rare occurrence these days.

Despite this tragedy, we must remember just how rare such events are, and just how safe rail travel is.

Most media reports refer to a landslide as being the likely cause.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10080


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2020, 22:44:00 »

What I find particularly shocking is not the actual occurrence of the accident, they can never be entirely eliminated, but the scale of the damage to modernish stock. One coach is substantially destroyed a very rare occurrence these days.

The MK (Milton Keynes) III, whilst much better than a MK I, has proven not to be particularly crash-worthy unfortunately.  The images from Southall and Ufton Nervet crashes show how badly they perform when involved in substantial collisions, though the only really modern reference point for newer stock is the Pendolino involved in the Grayrigg derailment. 

That appeared to stand up amazingly well, though you have to be very careful when making comparisons.  A whole train derailing and falling down a slope will produce significantly different forces to one suddenly being stopped by a landslide with the resulting concertina effect.

A sad day for the industry, but as you say had it been a busy train it could have been very much worse.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page