Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum [home] and [about]
from GWR - Travel with confidence
Forum in and beyond Coronavirus
DfT Covid Travel Advice
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Railfuture Severnside - CANX
29/09/20 - Tuesday Club - ONLINE
03/10/20 - RailFuture Annual - ONLINE
09/10/20 - Travelwach Southwest
Random Image
Train Running Polls Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
September 26, 2020, 06:21:45 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[132] AZTEC Tickets - sorting out the ticket barriers
[95] Journeys between places with similar names
[56] Newhaven Marine. Closure consultation, January 2020.
[55] lack of rail scenes in modern day films
[53] Weymouth tramway-the final curtain?
[50] Older types of fluorescent lamp now hard to find.
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Air fares in the time of pandemic  (Read 709 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 30660



View Profile WWW Email
« on: August 14, 2020, 11:52:36 am »

We so often see "it's cheaper to fly than to take the train".  A little bit of the other side of the coin, perhaps (BBC Live feed):

Quote
It's not just France seeing soaring travel prices ahead of new UK quarantine rules.

The Netherlands was also taken off the travel corridor list after a rise in coronavirus infections there.

Prices for seats on non-stop flights between Amsterdam and London have soared well above the average for this time of year, according to a review of Google Flight data.

The cheapest seat on Friday will set passengers back £327 - with the most expensive on British Airways' last available flight costs £645 for the 85 minute journey.

Meanwhile, the only remaining journey on Stena Line's ferry route between Hook of Holland and Harwich on Friday is sold out.

And an example of a truly open market?   If this the sort of outcome that may happen from a fares review on rail?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 820


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 07:40:51 pm »

It is an example of neither.

The air passenger market is currently decimated. The only people that are flying the Amsterdam to London route are those who really really want to go or really really have to go. They’ll probably pay whatever is asked of them.

And, IMHO, of any TOC tried charging £327 for an 85-minute journey they’d find themselves running a lot of virtual ECS
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3356



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2020, 09:33:26 pm »

The correct basis for comparison is surely the distance in miles, not the time taken in minutes.
Possibly not much more, per mile than the worst UK train fares for full fare walk up.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 30660



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2020, 04:04:21 pm »

It is an example of neither.

The air passenger market is currently decimated. The only people that are flying the Amsterdam to London route are those who really really want to go or really really have to go. They’ll probably pay whatever is asked of them.

And, IMHO, of any TOC tried charging £327 for an 85-minute journey they’d find themselves running a lot of virtual ECS


The correct basis for comparison is surely the distance in miles, not the time taken in minutes.
Possibly not much more, per mile than the worst UK train fares for full fare walk up.

London to Amsterdam - 222 miles, so that's £1.47 per mile

London to Melksham - 100 miles, £91 peak single, so £0.90 per mile. Standard Class
London to Melksham - 100 miles, £153.70 peak single, so £1.54 per mile. First Class (*)

* - That's a "via Swindon" Fare.  Noticed an "any permitted" at £138.30 too ... wonder what the difference is
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 820


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 04:40:33 pm »

It is an example of neither.

The air passenger market is currently decimated. The only people that are flying the Amsterdam to London route are those who really really want to go or really really have to go. They’ll probably pay whatever is asked of them.

And, IMHO, of any TOC tried charging £327 for an 85-minute journey they’d find themselves running a lot of virtual ECS


The correct basis for comparison is surely the distance in miles, not the time taken in minutes.
Possibly not much more, per mile than the worst UK train fares for full fare walk up.

London to Amsterdam - 222 miles, so that's £1.47 per mile

London to Melksham - 100 miles, £91 peak single, so £0.90 per mile. Standard Class
London to Melksham - 100 miles, £153.70 peak single, so £1.54 per mile. First Class (*)

* - That's a "via Swindon" Fare.  Noticed an "any permitted" at £138.30 too ... wonder what the difference is

In truth none of these comparisons are really valid because we are in very special circumstances at the moment.

The peak rate pence per mile figures between London and Melksham might look impressive (for want of a better word) but cheaper options are available (going off peak, advance fares, splitting etc). There appear to be no such options on any cross channel routes at the moment.

Being one of those social pariahs who still smoke, for over 20 years I have been taking advantage of the Single Market and Customs Union to buy my tobacco tax and duty paid in Belgium where it is legally on sale at about 40% of the UK price. When the lockdown restrictions were lifted I looked into the possibility of going over – quick.

P&O, DFDS and Eurotunnel all wanted £90-£95 for a one way trip, or £180 to £190 return. Last year I got a return with P&O for a car and two adults for £37.00. The additional cost makes it impractical to go at the moment (even if I could but of course Belgium is now back on the quarantine list).

I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the first things our Glorious Leaders will do after Brexit is fully finalised is to reintroduce the Customs Allowances that already exist if you are coming back from a non-EU country. Of course, those who smuggle the stuff in will still be doing it, but doing it legally will be stopped.

Funny old world, innit...
Logged
southwest
Full Member
***
Posts: 99


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2020, 07:54:54 pm »

It's called supply and demand, don't forget airlines have lost millions of pound a day whilst being grounded, maintenance etc still has to continue on aircraft even if they are just sitting there. With travel decimate and most air corridors being shut down yet again thanks to the incompetence of this government they are having to increase prices to make up for lost revenue. There's also having to bring more staff back one minute and then put them back on furlough/unpaid leave again.


There's also the mass scale market that would usually happen, meaning having thousand of staff and a 200 plus aircraft available is cheap and cost effective, but currently it's being more of a burden.
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 800



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2020, 09:02:38 pm »

Quote
It's called supply and demand, don't forget airlines have lost millions of pound a day whilst being grounded, maintenance etc still has to continue on aircraft even if they are just sitting there.

To say nothing of having to continue to pay leasing fees to the financial institutions from whom they lease the aircraft. And if the airline collapses, those institutions will be left with aircraft on their hands with no income from them, and capital values severely impaired by the surplus of aircraft over demand, but with continuing cost being incurred storing and maintaining them. The write downs that result will mean that the banks that own then will have their balance sheets impaired and be less able to support home buyers, small and medium businesses (or even large ones needing to refinance to get through the current difficult times).

A chap can get depressed thinking about this, but at least it will reduce emissions from aircraft..........
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page