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Reginald25
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2020, 20:10:37 » |
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I feel only a very small proportion of travellers from a line below the M4 (say) to Scotland, would travel by sleeper. Business travellers would be looking probably for a day return (only possible by plane, and cheaper) or travel up in the evening before, stay in a hotel (with showers and a good breakfast) and be ready to start meetings etc.
Not a sleeper service, but for comparison, a few years ago at work I looked at alternatives from Melksham to Durham. Renting a car to get me to Bristol airport and back, another to get me from Newcastle airport to the meeting, and a return airfare, worked out significantly cheaper than rental car/hotel or std train/hotel. The comparison would be worse for a sleeper as a single berth would necessitate first class.
For leisure travel, a late start back by sleeper would mean hanging around to get on the train (outbound perhaps easier if starting from home but that would need someone to provide a lift to the station). Generally not easy to period park at a station as woudl be the case for air travel.
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broadgage
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2020, 21:11:30 » |
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A modern sleeper train should be able to provide showers and a decent breakfast.
Showers don't use that much water, and IMHO▸ used shower water could be dumped, unlike toilet waste.
Alternatively, used shower water could be used to flush the WC▸ , thereby reducing the total tank capacity required.
And as for breakfast, the present mood on the railway is against catering, but that might change.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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southwest
Guest
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« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2020, 13:55:41 » |
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A modern sleeper train should be able to provide showers and a decent breakfast.
Showers don't use that much water, and IMHO▸ used shower water could be dumped, unlike toilet waste.
Alternatively, used shower water could be used to flush the WC▸ , thereby reducing the total tank capacity required.
And as for breakfast, the present mood on the railway is against catering, but that might change.
I fully agree with you, If an A380 can have a shower on board I don't see why a modern sleep can't. |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2020, 14:18:45 » |
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Of course the MK▸ V's used on the Caledonian Sleeper cars do have showers, and I'm sure any replacement to the not-very-modern-any-more MK III's will have them installed, but probably not cost effective to adapt them now.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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broadgage
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« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2020, 21:08:57 » |
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The only way that I can see to re use much of the exiting stock AND provide showers would to build a small number of new vehicles with four showers, two at each end.
Place these new vehicles between two existing sleepers such that each berth is near a shower. Use the rest of the space in this coach to provide a few luxury first class cabins with en-suite showers.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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southwest
Guest
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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2020, 11:20:30 » |
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The only way that I can see to re use much of the exiting stock AND provide showers would to build a small number of new vehicles with four showers, two at each end.
Place these new vehicles between two existing sleepers such that each berth is near a shower. Use the rest of the space in this coach to provide a few luxury first class cabins with en-suite showers.
Why bother though? I can't think of any train company buying 4 new Mark 5 just have showers on board it's not financially viable. |
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ellendune
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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2020, 12:39:06 » |
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The only way that I can see to re use much of the exiting stock AND provide showers would to build a small number of new vehicles with four showers, two at each end.
Place these new vehicles between two existing sleepers such that each berth is near a shower. Use the rest of the space in this coach to provide a few luxury first class cabins with en-suite showers.
Why bother though? I can't think of any train company buying 4 new Mark 5 just have showers on board it's not financially viable. Yes either you have entirely new sleeper stock or you stay as you are. I don't see logic for mix and match. Of course new locos to improve reliability would be useful and if it decreases maintenance might stack up from a financial point of view as well. |
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Jamsdad
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« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2020, 13:01:09 » |
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I don't think there would be much demand from Night Riviera passengers. You can already get a shower at Paddington.
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old original
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« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2020, 17:17:55 » |
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I don't think there would be much demand from Night Riviera passengers. You can already get a shower at Paddington.
..and Truro & Penzance (in normal times) |
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8 Billion people on a wet rock - of course we're not happy
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broadgage
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« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2020, 21:17:49 » |
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The only way that I can see to re use much of the exiting stock AND provide showers would to build a small number of new vehicles with four showers, two at each end.
Place these new vehicles between two existing sleepers such that each berth is near a shower. Use the rest of the space in this coach to provide a few luxury first class cabins with en-suite showers.
Why bother though? I can't think of any train company buying 4 new Mark 5 just have showers on board it's not financially viable. Yes either you have entirely new sleeper stock or you stay as you are. I don't see logic for mix and match. Of course new locos to improve reliability would be useful and if it decreases maintenance might stack up from a financial point of view as well. I partly agree, the only merit of my suggestion was reduced capital cost if compared to an all new fleet. |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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southwest
Guest
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« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2020, 19:14:25 » |
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The only way that I can see to re use much of the exiting stock AND provide showers would to build a small number of new vehicles with four showers, two at each end.
Place these new vehicles between two existing sleepers such that each berth is near a shower. Use the rest of the space in this coach to provide a few luxury first class cabins with en-suite showers.
Why bother though? I can't think of any train company buying 4 new Mark 5 just have showers on board it's not financially viable. Yes either you have entirely new sleeper stock or you stay as you are. I don't see logic for mix and match. Of course new locos to improve reliability would be useful and if it decreases maintenance might stack up from a financial point of view as well. I partly agree, the only merit of my suggestion was reduced capital cost if compared to an all new fleet. Having an all new fleet would be cheaper overall, easier maintenance, halving the required spare parts etc. The Mk3s are good but their age is begining to show, even the Castle sets won't last more than 10-12 years. Besides do we really want late 1970s/early 80s rolling stock still in mainline service in 2032? |
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Reginald25
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« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2020, 14:52:40 » |
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I agree that showers etc are probably better at terminal stations. But there is no substitute for an ensuite hotel room available all evening. I can't see sleepers attracting more than a small percentage of the traffic on a core route, the alternative of evening flight (or daytime train) with a hotel at the end, is so much easier and probably cheaper. There are of course non-drivers who don't like flying who might prefer the sleeper.
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Jamsdad
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« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2020, 16:12:06 » |
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Im sorry I don't agree with you. Demand for the Night Riviera is high. Often you cant get a berth. Cornish people with business in London find it a much cheaper alternative than either peak early morning trains or going up the night before and spending ?100 plus on a London hotel room. Business demand is high too. Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership have invested heavily in the sleeper revamp and in new lounges and have done this because it is what businesses want. A few years ago when FGW▸ suggested scrapping the sleeper there was a huge response in favour of keeping it.
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