Extinction Rebellion (XR) protests - August 2020

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

Ironically, that 1895 plaque with its praise of Colston is still in situ.

Indeed.  But its future now needs to be decided one way or the other.  It can't just be ignored.

The root problem of the Colston affair was a very few highly influential people put up barriers to lawful solution.  Now it is down I notice one of these organisations has apologised for these actions.  Our leaders need to get out there and listen to what other people think rather than just the people they know.  The people I know all think like me so everyone must think that is a very dangerous assumption. 

The arguments that we can't rewrite history don't wash if the so called history is in fact a lie - and one that oppresses a minority.  Slavery happened and Bristol merchants like Colston made a huge amount of money on the back of the suffering of black people.  That is history we can't change that.  What we can change is a plaque that was erected many years after his death that tells a lie for political reasons (at the time). 

Getting back to XR^▸ (Crossrail). There is an injustice coming in that millions of people are going to be killed or forced out of the place they live in because of sea level rise and flooding; many more millions will starve  as crops fail.  And some of us are worried that we will not be able to fly somewhere nice for a holiday and we might have to change our lifestyle to mitigate this.  An injustice is brewing and our leaders (many of whom will be dead before the worst comes) ignore it or pay it lip service.  A generation who will have to live through those consequences much more than us have pointed out the injustice and want action and influential people are too worried that our fossil fuel investments might lose value or wind turbines might ruin the view they have from their country mansion, or they might have to travel on a train rather than their gas guzzling luxury car.  The super rich are still building luxury yachts and buying into a future of space tourism.  They don't care, so people have no other way to express their views.

Covid has made many of us (employees and employers alike) seriously consider that the sometimes long daily commute, which no matter how we do it is part of an unsustainable way of living, is not necessary and that there may be another way. This will disrupt our economy just as, a few years ago, the start of commuting has took the heart out of many of the local economies of the places we commute from.  Yet our leaders want everyone back to their commute to preserve this unsustainable economy.

The longer our leaders ignore peaceful protests against real injustices, the more likely we are to get violent ones.       

[Bmblbzzz]

I wandered down to Prince Street Bridge today to see what was going on. Not a lot, really. It was pretty much like any Saturday on Wapping Wharf, with people milling around, eating and buying, except everyone was crossing the bridge on foot, bike or electric monowheel. There were a couple of XR^▸ (Crossrail) people visible, chiefly a man singing really bad (my opinion, I'm sure some people liked it) folk music. I wanted to ask someone, but didn't get a chance, if they were hoping Kye Dudd would follow this weekend up in a year or so by closing the bridge.

But I did get a chance to look around the Matthew. 

The longer our leaders ignore peaceful protests against real injustices, the more likely we are to get violent ones.       

We're arguably already getting it but it's not, and probably won't be, from the XR crowd. It's in Africa, the Middle East, India and other parts of the world where the line between famine and feast is thinner and frailer.

Edited to sort out the missing quote.

[broadgage]

Getting back to XR^▸ (Crossrail). There is an injustice coming in that millions of people are going to be killed or forced out of the place they live in because of sea level rise and flooding; many more millions will starve  as crops fail.  And some of us are worried that we will not be able to fly somewhere nice for a holiday and we might have to change our lifestyle to mitigate this.  An injustice is brewing and our leaders (many of whom will be dead before the worst comes) ignore it or pay it lip service.  A generation who will have to live through those consequences much more than us have pointed out the injustice and want action and influential people are too worried that our fossil fuel investments might lose value or wind turbines might ruin the view they have from their country mansion, or they might have to travel on a train rather than their gas guzzling luxury car.  The super rich are still building luxury yachts and buying into a future of space tourism.  They don't care, so people have no other way to express their views.

Covid has made many of us (employees and employers alike) seriously consider that the sometimes long daily commute, which no matter how we do it is part of an unsustainable way of living, is not necessary and that there may be another way. This will disrupt our economy just as, a few years ago, the start of commuting has took the heart out of many of the local economies of the places we commute from.  Yet our leaders want everyone back to their commute to preserve this unsustainable economy.

The longer our leaders ignore peaceful protests against real injustices, the more likely we are to get violent ones.       

I agree.
The loss of life and destruction of property due to climate change has started, and will get a great deal worse, without drastic cuts in carbon emissions.
If we are serious about climate change, we need to fly, and drive a lot less, and use a LOT less fossil fuel for other purposes.

[broadgage]

August is now over, and nothing much happened.
There were some protests but all very low key if compared to previous XR^▸ (Crossrail) protests.

[Surrey 455]

August is now over, and nothing much happened.
There were some protests but all very low key if compared to previous XR^▸ (Crossrail) protests.

Although the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) are reporting within the last few minutes at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53987662

Arrests as Extinction Rebellion protests begin across England

At least 90 people have been arrested at climate change protests causing disruption across England.

and

Extinction Rebellion said it planned to "peacefully disrupt the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Parliament in London" with 10 days of demonstrations until MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) backed the Climate and Ecological Emergency Bill.

So sounds as though it's only just starting. 

[TaplowGreen]

They've certainly captured the national mood when it comes to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))! 

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/hs2/hs2-sites-targeted-by-extinction-rebellion-protests-01-09-2020/

[ellendune]

They've certainly captured the national mood when it comes to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))! 

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/hs2/hs2-sites-targeted-by-extinction-rebellion-protests-01-09-2020/

The national mood. How do we know what the national mood is?  I know what I think, and what the people I know think, and I will of course assume that as the national mood, but I have been very wrong in this assumption on different issues many times before. So do we have any objective evidence as to what the national mood is on this issue? 

[TaplowGreen]

They've certainly captured the national mood when it comes to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))! 

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/hs2/hs2-sites-targeted-by-extinction-rebellion-protests-01-09-2020/

The national mood. How do we know what the national mood is?  I know what I think, and what the people I know think, and I will of course assume that as the national mood, but I have been very wrong in this assumption on different issues many times before. So do we have any objective evidence as to what the national mood is on this issue? 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2020/05/18/31266/2

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/poll-post-election-future-hs2/

Hope that helps. Not difficult to find similar.

[Red Squirrel]

O brave new world, that has such people in ‘t!

[ellendune]

Hope that helps. Not difficult to find similar.

Fine, we just need to evidence such statements about the national mood.

I still think the national mood as evidenced by this and XR^▸ (Crossrail) are wrong on this one. If we are to decarbonise the economy and reduce air pollution we need to reduce domestic air travel and car travel and provide capacity for more freight on the classic rail lines to the midlands and the north that will be made available by HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)). We will also need more capacity elsewhere, but that is another matter.

Even if Covid reduces the demand for people to move around as much it will not go away and the need for freight transport will not diminish. Local delivery vans can be made electric but I see no carbon free long distance HGV soon. 

If we were to have a proper informed debate about HS2 the capacity need for it and the fact that the money to pay for it cannot be just converted into revenue expenditure then I think the national mood might change. 

[IndustryInsider]

If we were to have a proper informed debate about HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) the capacity need for it and the fact that the money to pay for it cannot be just converted into revenue expenditure then I think the national mood might change. 

Informed debate?  Crickey, that's asking a bit much!

[broadgage]

Hope that helps. Not difficult to find similar.

Fine, we just need to evidence such statements about the national mood.

I still think the national mood as evidenced by this and XR^▸ (Crossrail) are wrong on this one. If we are to decarbonise the economy and reduce air pollution we need to reduce domestic air travel and car travel and provide capacity for more freight on the classic rail lines to the midlands and the north that will be made available by HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)). We will also need more capacity elsewhere, but that is another matter.

Even if Covid reduces the demand for people to move around as much it will not go away and the need for freight transport will not diminish. Local delivery vans can be made electric but I see no carbon free long distance HGV soon. 

If we were to have a proper informed debate about HS2 the capacity need for it and the fact that the money to pay for it cannot be just converted into revenue expenditure then I think the national mood might change. 

I very largely agree. There is considerable opposition to HS2, much of it very ill informed.
Whilst I have considerable sympathy with XR, they are not in my experience very well informed. Many XR supporters are opposed to HS2 on the grounds that it will be a very expensive way "of allowing a few rich business people to travel a bit faster" whilst completely missing the very valid points about increased capacity for low carbon transport of both passengers and freight.

And yes, as above, LOCAL transport of goods is achievable by electric road vehicles, or even by horses in rural areas, but an electric HGV seems unlikely.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm mildly surprised at the arrests. There doesn't seem to have been any trouble in Bristol last weekend.

[TaplowGreen]

If we were to have a proper informed debate about HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) the capacity need for it and the fact that the money to pay for it cannot be just converted into revenue expenditure then I think the national mood might change. 

Informed debate?  Crickey, that's asking a bit much!

.....especially when so much of the information is withheld.

https://www.ft.com/content/d8165ec0-1d61-4208-95ad-bb5c9b212407

[IndustryInsider]

Can't read that as it's behind a paywall.