Have Off Peak Times changed recently?

[whole diary]

[alan_s]

Looking at brfares.com an off-peak return (SVR) BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is valid from 08:45. (restrictions LC^▸ (Level Crossing)).  Yet GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and other booking sites are not selling this for the 08:56 and insist it is a peak service.  National rail still lists LC restriction as 08:45.  So why is the 08:56 now a peak service?  Or have all ticket codes changed recently and BRfares not been updated?

[stuving]

It's a case of text and data don't match. BRFares is fed by the same data feeds and journey planners are, and also reads the text that is accessible to all on NRE^‡(resolve)'s site. In this case the machine-readable version (also on BRFares under "unpublished restrictions" says:

Not valid to depart   BRISTOL PARKWAY   0531–0859   on any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)

The tow sources do match for other stations, with BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) at 8:30 and CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains) at 8:45, Swindon at 9:10. For BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) to be 9:00 does look out of line, doesn't it? GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) do get embarrassed by this kind of mistake, but there's no way of predicting which will be changed if you point it out to them!

[alan_s]

Thanks for your prompt and detailed reply.  I'd not noticed those "unpublished restrictions" before.  It does seem a bit cheeky that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can just add this in and it's invisible to the normal traveller even when in possession of a ticket and checks NRE^‡(resolve) for the limitations. 

Someone in all innocence could by a SVR in advance for the 9.56, read the ticket, follow the link to the NRE page, see the entry for BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) says 08.45, no mention of 08.59, so could genuinely believe it would be valid an hour earlier at 8.56

[stuving]

That's not quite what I meant - perhaps I should spell out how it works a bit more.

Online journey planners work off a huge heap of data on fares, the timetable, network topology, and routeing. None of this is published - nor is it readable by people (even if it's mostly text files). The restrictions are also set out as text, and these are published on the NRE^‡(resolve) site, for example in nre.co.uk/lc.

BRFares takes the fares data files and presents them in a form we can read. It also takes the restriction code from NRE, and shows that almost unaltered (it now adds a bit of fancy formatting). The "unpublished restrictions" are only unpublished in the sense that they are part of the data feeds, intended for internal railway industry use. But they should match the text - and that's probably a legal requirement! So if they don't agree, it's not a sneaky trick it's a cock-up.

I think (from observation and guesswork) the restriction data is produced with a lot of computer help but far from automatically; the text is produced by humans. I guess that editing the old text is the easiest way to do that, but is error-prone. There's a lot of scope for  silliness, some of which has been reported on the forum. This is partly due to the crude way GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) define restrictions at each station, blocking all trains within narrow time intervals. They can (and do) sometimes disallow travel by accident, where the times are based on one line's timetable and happen to catch trains on connecting line. All told, restrictions are a very messy bit of the system.

[eightf48544]

The whole fares system is a mess. Who is going be  Alexander and  cut the Knot?

[Lee]

The whole fares system is a mess. Who is going be  Alexander and  cut the Knot?

Luckily enough, Alexander was in charge when this forum first started in 2007. Let's go back in time and see how he dealt with the thorny issue of off-peak fares:

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) condemn rail fare price hike

The government is being called on to stop a rail operator from putting up fares by up to 20%.

The rise on South West Trains (SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) from Sunday affects services coming into London after the rush-hour "peak".

The Liberal Democrats have tabled a Commons motion condemning the increase as "excessive" and calling for a review of the regulation of rail fares.

Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander has said he is limited in what he can do as only peak fares are regulated.

The SWT rise means passengers will not get off-peak discounts until much later in the morning.

No case

Mr Alexander told the Commons on Tuesday: "The fares at off-peak times are not regulated fares.

"Although I understand that there was real concern and public interest in the fares that were announced, it is important to emphasise that that those are not fares set by government.

"There must be a degree of flexibility for train companies to set prices against other modes of available transport, but I would urge all train companies to act responsibly when considering the setting of unregulated fares."

David Laws, the Lib Dem work and pensions spokesman, who has tabled the motion, said the company had failed to "provide an adequate business case" for the decision.

However, SWT has insisted that the new prices will bring the company into line with other operators and allow it to "better match demand and pricing".

Examples of the increases, which were first announced in March, include a cheap day return from Alton, in Hampshire, to London rising from £15.80 to £19 - a 20.25% increase.

A Bournemouth-to-London cheap day return will go up from £36.40 to £43.70 - a 20.05% rise.

Oh wait...