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Author Topic: Returning to holidays and leisure trips - but UK or overseas?  (Read 703 times)
johnneyw
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 12:13:58 pm »



And finally alcohol and food prices have been mentioned as a DISINCENTIVE to UK holidays. There will be calls to reduce alcohol prices in particular. There might be an admission that drinkers have been overfleeced.
Beer in particular now costs nearly TWENTY times the price I paid when first of drinking age in 1978. Wages have of course increased also, but not to the same extent. Time to reduce beer duty ? "Holiday in the UK ! Enjoy a pint or two of locally brewed beer at the new REDUCED PRICE "

I wouldn't hold your breath.

The Government (rightly) is very unlikely to do anything which is seen as encouraging even more alcohol consumption given the damage and cost already incurred to health & society by boozing - it's the same argument as tobacco duty and always an easy one to justify & slip through an increase. 

Additionally, how would you propose the Government make up the lost revenue? (I might even say, Booooooooooooze gonna pay for it?)  Wink


Even prior to the Covid crisis, UK pubs and bars were finding themselves in severe difficulties due, to large degree, the tax inflated cost of the drinks they were selling and lower supermarket drinks prices.  Lowering the huge tax duty for pubs, bars and licenced eateries (but not supermarkets etc) could go some way to addressing the problem and provide a stimulus to an important part of the nation's economy which would offset the loss of tax revenue. It also can be argued that drinking relatively cheap supermarket alcohol in at home can be more detrimental to the nation's health than in a communal environment.
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ellendune
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 02:57:00 pm »

Even prior to the Covid crisis, UK pubs and bars were finding themselves in severe difficulties due, to large degree, the tax inflated cost of the drinks they were selling and lower supermarket drinks prices.  Lowering the huge tax duty for pubs, bars and licenced eateries (but not supermarkets etc) could go some way to addressing the problem and provide a stimulus to an important part of the nation's economy which would offset the loss of tax revenue. It also can be argued that drinking relatively cheap supermarket alcohol in at home can be more detrimental to the nation's health than in a communal environment.

Just to be clear the alcohol duty is the same regardless of where it is sold. However, I assume pubs end up paying more in other taxes(?)

So you are looking to reduce alcohol duty in pubs to offset this?
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grahame
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 03:42:27 pm »


Just to be clear the alcohol duty is the same regardless of where it is sold. However, I assume pubs end up paying more in other taxes(?)

So you are looking to reduce alcohol duty in pubs to offset this?

A pint can of beer, 5% alcohol, actual cost as it reaches a shelf, 80p

If that shelf is in a supermarket, 30p markup, 10p beer tax, 24p VAT, sale price 1.44.

If that shelf is being the bar at the Queen's Arms, add cost of staff / service / premises (typically material cost it trippled), so that's 2.40 + 10p beer tax, 50p VAT, and a pint that you'll pay 3 quid for.

Tax - 34p in the supermarket, 60p in the pub.
Service charge 30p in the supermarket, 160p in the pub.

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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 04:21:07 pm »

Well I?m not exactly renowned for dragging threads back on topic but I?ll have a go this time  Grin

One thing that crossed my mind is that we have all (me included) missed the fact that not all holidays are of the bucket and spade variety.

Foreign tourists don?t come to the UK for the good weather; they come for other reasons such as sightseeing. They won?t see Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle or Stratford on Avon in their own countries, so they have to o to where these things are. Similarly if you want to see the leaning tower of Pisa there?s precious little point in going to Winchester.

Whilst some alternatives are available eg if you want to see lakes and mountains there are plenty not far from Windermere, but if you want to see Swiss lakes and mountains then you only have one option of a country to go to. But I?m not too sure that going to see the Archbishop of Westminster is a good enough substitute for going to St Peters Square...

I somehow doubt whether that sort of international tourism is going to be a thing of the past post-COVID

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broadgage
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 07:57:23 pm »

Just to be clear the alcohol duty is the same regardless of where it is sold. However, I assume pubs end up paying more in other taxes(?)
So you are looking to reduce alcohol duty in pubs to offset this?

If I were in charge, that is exactly what I would do.
I would reduce the duty on draught* beer, cider and similar drinks, which would also reduce the environmental harm resulting from the careless disposal of cans and bottles.

*To avoid attempts at evasion, "draught" would have be carefully defined, I would suggest the following.
If a product is to benefit from the lower duty rate applicable to draught products, then all the following conditions must be satisfied.
1) The drink must be supplied in reusable containers with a minimum capacity of 40 liters.
2) These containers must be of durable construction and designed to last for at least 200 round trips.
3) If these containers are supplied to anyone other than a licensed bar, then a deposit of at least ?25 must be charged.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
johnneyw
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 08:02:43 pm »

Even prior to the Covid crisis, UK pubs and bars were finding themselves in severe difficulties due, to large degree, the tax inflated cost of the drinks they were selling and lower supermarket drinks prices.  Lowering the huge tax duty for pubs, bars and licenced eateries (but not supermarkets etc) could go some way to addressing the problem and provide a stimulus to an important part of the nation's economy which would offset the loss of tax revenue. It also can be argued that drinking relatively cheap supermarket alcohol in at home can be more detrimental to the nation's health than in a communal environment.

Just to be clear the alcohol duty is the same regardless of where it is sold. However, I assume pubs end up paying more in other taxes(?)

So you are looking to reduce alcohol duty in pubs to offset this?

Pubs, bars and restaurants, yes. I've heard it suggested before and I think it has sufficient merit to be considered.  Make these establishment more competitive by making the cost of going out to them more affordable.  The social and economic benefits can, off course, be reviewed over time but I can see the merits of at least giving it a go.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 08:10:33 pm by johnneyw » Logged
broadgage
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 08:07:44 pm »

I would also reduce the duty charged on beer and cider in standardized, deposit charged, returnable bottles, subject to the following conditions.

1) The bottles must be of a standard type, fully interchangeable between different suppliers.
2) Made of recycled dark colored glass.
3) Only 3 sizes to be permitted, 275ml, 550ml, and 1 liter.
4) These bottles to be supplied in returnable crates, these may coloured as desired but must be a standard design, intended to withstand at least 200 round trips.
5) A deposit of 25 pence for the two smaller sizes, and 50 pence for the larger size, and five pounds per empty crate to be charged.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 08:22:19 pm »

Even prior to the Covid crisis, UK pubs and bars were finding themselves in severe difficulties due, to large degree, the tax inflated cost of the drinks they were selling and lower supermarket drinks prices.  Lowering the huge tax duty for pubs, bars and licenced eateries (but not supermarkets etc) could go some way to addressing the problem and provide a stimulus to an important part of the nation's economy which would offset the loss of tax revenue. It also can be argued that drinking relatively cheap supermarket alcohol in at home can be more detrimental to the nation's health than in a communal environment.

Just to be clear the alcohol duty is the same regardless of where it is sold. However, I assume pubs end up paying more in other taxes(?)

So you are looking to reduce alcohol duty in pubs to offset this?

Pubs, bars and restaurants, yes. I've heard it suggested before and I think it has sufficient merit to be considered.  Make these establishment more competitive by making the cost of going out to them more affordable.  The social and economic benefits can, off course, be reviewed over time but I can see the merits of at least giving it a go.

Given the state of our City Centres on any given Thursday/Friday/Saturday at around midnight, pubs and bars certainly seem to be quite affordable enough.

I'll let others consider the "social and economic benefits", of UK alcohol consumption and whether it should be further encouraged by lower prices -  perhaps the medical profession and the Police would be a good starting point?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/15/britons-get-drunk-more-often-than-35-other-nations-survey-finds

- we do not have a cafe society like France or many other countries, the British tend to binge drink, and whilst I enjo y an ale myself, I'm not sure it should be encouraged by the State - I think there are worthier causes for fiscal favouritism.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 08:35:10 pm »

Fair comment TG although myself and many of my friends and acquaintances would go out to bars and restaurants far more often if it were more affordable without necessarily ending up in a fight or indulging in anti social activity....all of the time. 😁
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broadgage
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2020, 08:46:30 pm »

I would reduce prices as earlier described, but also have a bit more law enforcement.
I doubt that my proposed reductions in prices of draught and SOME bottled beer would make the herds of young drunks much worse. I think that they mainly drink spirits and trendy imported bottled beers. Neither would be reduced in price under my proposals.
Neither would port.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2020, 11:59:36 pm »

For the foreseeable future, there will be a demand for overseas holidays for the reasons given of visiting historic places or hoping  to see a particular person.

However a lot of holidays are primarily for sun, sea, sand and booze. Such breaks COULD be taken in the UK and some more  WOULD be taken in the UK if travel was easier, and refreshment was cheaper.

Rail travel is seen as hugely complicated, and very expensive. Look at some of the threads on this forum regarding the validity or not of certain tickets.
No such complications for a package holiday to Spain. Advertised at a certain price, pay this price and off you go.
Split ticketing ? not needed.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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