Bike spaces on IETs

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

Which means they tend to be a bit useless as bike spaces. Mind you the same applies to the similar spaces on Cross Country Voyagers, except that rather than luggage it tends to the cleaner's rubbish bag occupying those!

[FarWestJohn]

Perhaps the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) should use the Japanese system with bicycles put in a bag with front wheel removed!!

'Unless your bike is of the folding variety, you would have to remove the front wheel to do this.
The bike must be completely covered with a bike bag.   Note that the maximum size allowed for the bike bag (or any luggage) on trains is 250cm in total (width + length + depth).  Length should be less than 200cm.

Bike bags can be purchased online or from bicycle shops.  Amazon/rinko bag'

[bobm]

Having been in Penzance over the last few days I?m not sure nine car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are banned from Long Rock.

The last two mornings I have caught a nine car from Penzance which Real Time Trains says has come empty from Long Rock.  Does anyone know the up to date position?

[southwest]

I haven't yet taken a bike on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) but the frequent complaint I hear from friends who have is that the cycle spaces are as often as not taken up by general luggage. In fact it seems it is GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) policy that these spaces should be used as overflow luggage storage (is this right?), and perhaps because of the luggage rack installed, people do this anyway.

There is actually more spaces for bicycles but these are used for luggage. There should be at least one storage area per 5 car iet for bicycles. Personally I think the TGS of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was better as it kept cyclist and passengers apart, reducing delays and arguments.

[IndustryInsider]

Having been in Penzance over the last few days I?m not sure nine car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are banned from Long Rock.

The last two mornings I have caught a nine car from Penzance which Real Time Trains says has come empty from Long Rock.  Does anyone know the up to date position?

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) correctly there is room for 2 9-car IETs, but they have to be last in and first out as they block the other roads.

[CyclingSid]

'Unless your bike is of the folding variety, you would have to remove the front wheel to do this.
The bike must be completely covered with a bike bag.   Note that the maximum size allowed for the bike bag (or any luggage) on trains is 250cm in total (width + length + depth).  Length should be less than 200cm.

Sounds like it could almost have been copied from Eurotunnel, another bike unfriendly service.

[Richard Fairhurst]

There is actually more spaces for bicycles but these are used for luggage. There should be at least one storage area per 5 car iet for bicycles.

Which isn't enough at just two, very thin, spaces.

On the Cotswold Line, 5-car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) replaced Adelantes (six bike spaces) and HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) (six bike spaces). I think four spaces should be the minimum, and even that's pretty miserly.

Replacing the windowless seats with luggage areas would allow this to happen.

[grahame]

Not sure if this should be a continuation of this old thread, or a new one - "Suitability of cycle spaces for cycles on IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train)"

From http://www.ramblingfatman.co.uk/Trains-carrige0.php

The Latest HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) trains

DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) train On the latest generation of high-speed British trains their bike compartments are about the size of a double wardrobe. They remind me of that cupboard where you throw stuff you don't want to chuck out, but don't want the stuff to be seen either. They allegidly take two bikes hung vertically from hooks, the fabrication of the hanger is unsuitable for any wheels wider than those of a typical road bike. You can see in the image, there's one gravel bike, one road bike and you can't close doors. While vertical storage is an effective use of space, it deters cyclists from using trains. I've actually seen a 'Dutch type of bike' advertised on the C2C trains bike page, you'd be lucky to get the handlebars in through the doors let alone lift the weighty thing up onto the hooks. The web designers (and C2C boffin's who obviously agreed the design of the page) clearly, have never picked one up.

There is a serious issue lifting your bike onto an overhead hook, on a moving train, with other passengers around you, it's simply not safe. Two of my bikes are electric and even though 'ScotRail' suggest taking the battery off the bike before hanging it, I would still struggle to lift the bike, besides, hanging the bike from the front wheel can damage the bike, the weight of the bike would stress the fork crown (it's not designed to take weight in this direction). And it looks like mountain bikers are out of luck too, the downhill MTB's handlebars wouldn't get through the doors of the bike wardrobe and their tyres are too big for the hangers anyway (no need to go down the fat bike explanation). One train company suggests if your tyre is too big; try letting air out of your front tyre to store your bike in the racks. What a great idea- then you can spend fifteen minutes on the platform (while the other passengers walk past you) pumping your tyre back up with a mini-pump. You could get a quick release spindle to replace the front wheel and use that to hang the bike up (instead of a front wheel). A word of advice- if you manage to get your bike secured into this wardrobe, make sure you try and get it out well before your stop, people has missed their stops trying to get them down especially with other bikes jammed in there.

It looks to me (and I'm starting to get some experience here!) that the designated cycle spaces may not be fit for the purpose of carrying the cycles for which they were designed.  I also wonder if there's a disability issue here; I'll quote as a personal example, but I know I am not alone - I could get my bike in and onto the train but lifting it onto the provided hanger would be beyond my physical ability these days.   Thoughts, anyone?

[Bmblbzzz]

As someone commented to me, 'If you were expected to lift an object 10 to 25kg, about 1.5m long with a couple of sharp projections, above your head and hang it from a hook at work, this would be a health and safety issue. But passengers on a train are expected to do this on a moving, bumping vehicle, with other people around too.'

[CyclingSid]

Maybe Japanese have different bikes?

[broadgage]

Maybe Japanese have different bikes?

More likely in my view that they keep a cycle at the station, possibly one at each end of a regular commute. Japan is arguably a more law abiding country than is the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and a bike left at a station is probably more likely to still be present when the owner returns.

That of course only deals with commuting, not leisure cycling, perhaps leisure cycling is less common in Japan ?

I have only known one Japanese family, but they spoke of cycling to the station as being the norm if too far to walk. They also blamed a lot of accidents on drunk cyclists.
I also know one Japan person on line, not in person, and they cycle everywhere local, and take the train for longer trips, no mention of taking a bike on the train.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Maybe Japanese have different bikes?

The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) were reputedly designed with reference to British bikes - Hitachi made a small song and dance about it at the time - but road bikes rather than the wider-handlebarred versions that many, perhaps most, people ride.

You can, just about, get two road bikes into the supposed bike compartment. But anything else (hybrid/get-about-town-bike, mountain bike, gravel bike) is a struggle... as I found when I had my gravel bike on an IET, someone else tried to wedge their hybrid in, and mine ended up with £180 worth of damage.

If nothing else, it's disappointing to see train designers seemingly incapable of learning from the past. We've been through exactly this before: 158/159s originally had compartments for two bikes, in the vestibules, with side walls. Very similar to IETs. They were universally agreed to be inconvenient, and operators began removing the side wall (led by SWT^▸ (South West Trains), I think).

[Bmblbzzz]

Hitachi had a "consultation" with cycling organisations in the Birmingham area, in which – IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) what I was told by a friend who took part – they basically presented a mock-up of the bike spaces, people could try them out (obviously the mock-carriage was stationary) and comment, but it seems they were only prepared/able to make the most minor changes.

[broadgage]

Hitachi had a "consultation" with cycling organisations in the Birmingham area, in which – IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) what I was told by a friend who took part – they basically presented a mock-up of the bike spaces, people could try them out (obviously the mock-carriage was stationary) and comment, but it seems they were only prepared/able to make the most minor changes.

The purpose of consultations, studies and surveys is often to justify a decision already made, not to significantly influence that decision.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Just witnessed a TM^‡(resolve) refuse carriage to a cyclist who had a booked bike reservation because “I’m full up with bikes already”. It’s the [redacted] up service from Charlbury, a 5-coach IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) which is always very busy as there’s a two-hour gap beforehand.

If a reservation doesn’t guarantee you a space, I seriously wonder what the point of them is. At the very least I would have thought the bike could have been stashed elsewhere on the train for the two short stops to Oxford, and the passenger asked to change onto a stopper from there.