Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
End of through trains
Bristol to Waterloo?

 
Please sign our petition
(more information)
 
Meeting, 20.10.2021, 19:00
Report here
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:35 26 Oct 2021
- Covid-19: Public sector pay freeze to be lifted and new US travel rules
* Heathrow air traffic may not recover until 2026, says boss
- Blue Origin: Jeff Bezos unveils plans for 'space business park'
- On the Beach accuses Ryanair of market abuse
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - Railfuture on Cirencester
20/11/21 - Railfuture on Saltford
09/12/21 - Award Event - CRN
08/03/22 - WWRUG AGM - B-o-A
Random Image
Train RunningCancelled
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington
12:12 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway
15:10 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington
17:12 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway
Short Run
08:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
10:41 Great Malvern to Brighton
12:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport
17:02 Brighton to Bristol Parkway
17:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
Delayed
05:05 Penzance to London Paddington
08:46 Plymouth to Penzance
09:20 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
October 26, 2021, 09:48:28 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[109] Plan to scrap printed timetables
[88] A new Severn tunnel - or other crossing?
[68] "Leisure Passenger - you don't matter"?
[56] Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
[38] South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed
[28] What is a reasonable connection?
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Poll
Question: Is it correct to describe a 51.50 fare from London to Bristol as "cheap"?  (Voting closed: October 25, 2020, 07:39:00 am)
Yes - fair description - 1 (5.6%)
No - just lower cost than an anytime ticket - 12 (66.7%)
It's complicated - 5 (27.8%)
Total Voters: 18

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Can an off peak London - Bristol ticket be described as "cheap"?  (Read 2222 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34669



View Profile WWW Email
« on: October 22, 2020, 08:39:00 am »

I joined a train at Swindon very recently that had left Paddington at 18:00 on its way from London to Bristol.  No more that 10 people got off the 10 car train at Swindon, and perhaps 6 joined.  In my carriage (6th in the train) there were three passengers including myself.

Ticket check soon after Swindon, and I overhead a discussion between the train manager and a fellow passenger.  It appeared that he had an "off peak" ticket (so a 51.50 fare) but was velling on a train on which that ticket was not valid.  He was threatened with a penalty fare / paid (I believe) 'just' the difference.  But the one thing that struck me was the statement "you cannot travel on this peak train with that cheap ticket"

Do members believe that it is right to describe a 51.50 fare from London to Bristol as "cheap"? 

While we are at it ... surely a train with just 3 people in a carriage is NOT peak.  To compare to the 14:32 Melksham to Swindon I travelled on yesterday - not easy (but possible) to social distance - around a dozen passengers in the section between door on a turbo carriage.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1007



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 08:57:29 am »

I thought that one's only liability in these circumstances was the difference in fare. One does after all have a ticket for the journey and therefore a penalty fare does not apply.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34669



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 09:09:57 am »

I thought that one's only liability in these circumstances was the difference in fare. One does after all have a ticket for the journey and therefore a penalty fare does not apply.

So did I ... but then it's fairly safe if you're in a role of authority to threaten higher penalties than could actually apply - customer probably knows know different, and if he does is hardly likely to complain and may well be more amenable to pay the difference on the belief it could have been worse.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 664


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 12:00:49 pm »

I joined a train at Swindon very recently that had left Paddington at 18:00 on its way from London to Bristol.  No more that 10 people got off the 10 car train at Swindon, and perhaps 6 joined.  In my carriage (6th in the train) there were three passengers including myself.

Ticket check soon after Swindon, and I overhead a discussion between the train manager and a fellow passenger.  It appeared that he had an "off peak" ticket (so a 51.50 fare) but was velling on a train on which that ticket was not valid.  He was threatened with a penalty fare / paid (I believe) 'just' the difference.  But the one thing that struck me was the statement "you cannot travel on this peak train with that cheap ticket"

Do members believe that it is right to describe a 51.50 fare from London to Bristol as "cheap"? 

While we are at it ... surely a train with just 3 people in a carriage is NOT peak.  To compare to the 14:32 Melksham to Swindon I travelled on yesterday - not easy (but possible) to social distance - around a dozen passengers in the section between door on a turbo carriage.

If the passenger got on at Swindon, then they would be travelling with a valid ticket, as the off peak restriction only refers to London to Swindon I believe. I have broken return journeys taken in the off peak period at Swindon or Chippenham before travelling on the last bit of the journey on a train that left Paddington at a peak time.

I agree with the main point you are making, and have made it to staff myself. Many peak hour services are now far less busy than similar off peak services.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10603


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 12:10:54 pm »

All down to the ERMA - TOCs (Train Operating Company) can't change pretty much anything without the say-so of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)....and a further drop in the farebox is not something that they'd appreciate.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 990


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 12:37:04 pm »

The concept of cheap is subjective. What consiitutes cheap to you might not seem cheap to me or vice versa.

In days gone by, your passenger would have been travelling with a ticket called a Cheap Day Return.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10603


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 02:23:16 pm »

Also, ?55.50 is about a full tank of petrol these days. So about the same to drive (& probbly park too)
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34669



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2020, 03:32:21 pm »

Also, ?55.50 is about a full tank of petrol these days. So about the same to drive (& probbly park too)

Shows how really hard the comparison is
... a car has capacity for a family but that train price is for one person
... a car has a capital running cost irrespective of the mileage it does
... there are cars that don't use petrol and the figures can be very different for them
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10603


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2020, 03:49:07 pm »

Hmmm - I'm not sure that I'd be taking an electric car on that sort of length of journey right now.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34669



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2020, 04:00:36 pm »

Hmmm - I'm not sure that I'd be taking an electric car on that sort of length of journey right now.

Rapid chargers - 30 minutes to fill - at every M4 service area, range of car 100 miles, time to visit loo, drink a coffee, check the server and post a series of yes / no - s to a quiz also near as darn it, 30 minutes.  From here (I live in Melksham, Wiltshire) to London - I would try it with a charge at Reading. Online check for Fleet, back via there and a charge.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 990


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 04:19:05 pm »


If the passenger got on at Swindon, then they would be travelling with a valid ticket, as the off peak restriction only refers to London to Swindon I believe. I have broken return journeys taken in the off peak period at Swindon or Chippenham before travelling on the last bit of the journey on a train that left Paddington at a peak time.

According to restriction code YC, the one that applies here:

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

    London Paddington after 04:29 and before 09:16 and after 16:40 until 18:36*
    Reading after 04:29 and before 09:40 and after 17:10 and before 19:01
    Slough after 04:29 and before 09:30
    London Waterloo after 04:29 and before 08:15
    Birmingham New Street after 04:29 and before 10:30
    Not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Waterloo before 09:52.

    * Off-Peak tickets valid on the 18:30 service for Kemble, Stroud, Stonehouse, Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa ONLY.

According to that wording the restriction applies to the train. So if you had an off peak ticket from Paddington to Bristol and broke your return jouney at Swndon, then as I read it that restriction would still prevent you from using that train for onward travel. Clearly you could use an off peak ticket from a station not mentioned in that restriction code for onward travel from Swindon, because code YC would not apply to that ticket

Quote from: freeme
I agree with the main point you are making, and have made it to staff myself. Many peak hour services are now far less busy than similar off peak services.

I empathise with the sentiment expressed, but a peak categorisation applies to a time of day and not how many people happen to be on that particular train.

I agree that this is a matter that ought to be lookied into in more detail in the future if and when we know whether we will ever have a peak commuter period again, but that is not a matter over which we should make knee-jerk reacions at the present time.

In any case, the capability of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to do anything quickly is much the same as for a dead sheep...

Logged
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 664


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2020, 05:30:17 pm »




Quote from: freeme
I agree with the main point you are making, and have made it to staff myself. Many peak hour services are now far less busy than similar off peak services.

I empathise with the sentiment expressed, but a peak categorisation applies to a time of day and not how many people happen to be on that particular train.

I agree that this is a matter that ought to be lookied into in more detail in the future if and when we know whether we will ever have a peak commuter period again, but that is not a matter over which we should make knee-jerk reacions at the present time.

In any case, the capability of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to do anything quickly is much the same as for a dead sheep...




Mine was just a sentiment rather than a suggestion. I'm still annoyed about what happened many years ago now, when I had to buy a peak ticket for a service that was due to leave Bath Spa before 9.30am (to Bristol) and it arrived late, after the next train, which could be caught with an off peak ticket!  Angry
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34669



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2020, 06:02:23 pm »

According to that wording the restriction applies to the train. So if you had an off peak ticket from Paddington to Bristol and broke your return jouney at Swndon, then as I read it that restriction would still prevent you from using that train for onward travel. Clearly you could use an off peak ticket from a station not mentioned in that restriction code for onward travel from Swindon, because code YC would not apply to that ticket

Correct. It is perfectly valid to travel from Paddington to Didcot on that train on an anytime Paddington to Didcot ticket, and the from Didcot to Bristol Temple Meads on a DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) to BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) super off peak between those stations. A very sensible thing to do - it seems a bit wasteful to pay for peak travel on a long distance train that runs the latter part of its journey after the peak when you don't have to.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 784


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2020, 10:08:52 am »


Correct. It is perfectly valid to travel from Paddington to Didcot on that train on an anytime Paddington to Didcot ticket, and the from Didcot to Bristol Temple Meads on a DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) to BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) super off peak between those stations. A very sensible thing to do - it seems a bit wasteful to pay for peak travel on a long distance train that runs the latter part of its journey after the peak when you don't have to.

Is this where the split ticketing system comes into play?  Hopefully their algorithms take the restriction codes in
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page