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Author Topic: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021  (Read 6174 times)
GBM
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2021, 11:43:08 am »

Is it me? 
The clear track adjacent to the track laying equipment (Stafford picture https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/stafford-rail-development-sets-track-laying-record-as-it-enters-final-stages-1) looks very 'kinked'.
Guess there is a technical term for it.
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stuving
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2021, 12:07:13 pm »

Is it me? 
The clear track adjacent to the track laying equipment (Stafford picture https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/stafford-rail-development-sets-track-laying-record-as-it-enters-final-stages-1) looks very 'kinked'.
Guess there is a technical term for it.

That's not track - it's two rails sitting on the ballast waiting for another of those clever machines to put sleepers under it and clip it down. Rail is quite floppy on its own - at least when seen foreshortened like that.
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paul7755
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2021, 12:44:16 pm »

I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 03:56:51 pm by paul7755 » Logged
smokey
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2021, 04:09:57 pm »

Heck of a lot of Steel sleepers in and along the line from Carbis Bay to St Ives.

I don't Understand the Quote from Rail Advent that this is the biggest investment in Track renewals in Cornwall since the 1950s, this relaying will extend the CWR laid from St Erth towards St Ives  that was installed about 4 years ago.
Would think the whole branch will be CWR after work is completed, so if 1 1/2 miles is being done then 3 miles has ALREADY been relaid with CWR.
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TonyK
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2021, 08:22:25 pm »

I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2021, 09:05:16 pm »

I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

not a week but five weeks.
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2021, 07:29:15 am »

I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

not a week but five weeks.

Depends on what else is being done.  Earthworks, culvert work, repairs to structures, what is referred to as a deep dig (ie going back to or near to the original formation and putting new layers of stone back)
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stuving
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2021, 11:10:24 am »

Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

One thing these machines can't yet do is bring their own rails with them - these have to be brought in and placed in position first. That's not so bad for replacement, where the existing track can be used, and the rails kicked off the side of a train. For installation from scratch, or from track so bad it can't be used for a goods train, it must be quite a challenge. I think it means bringing in quite short lengths and welding on site, and in any case the whole length has to be temporarily joined across the gaps that will be finally welded only when tensioning is done.

Maybe the next development step of the machnes will be for that gantry that scoots back and forth the whole length of the train, carrying sleepers up to the front, to pull rails forwards from an even longer train-load of supplies. The gantry runs on rails attached to the sides of the wagons, which are continuous across the gaps between them while allowing for curves. I'm sure some kind of channel equipped with rollers can be included for rail handling too. Note that (at least in Balfour Beatty's one) there's a driver inside the gantry - I'm sure that's a more popular gig than the "seat" down at track level for the operator who appears to be supervising the clipping down of the rails.
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2021, 04:06:33 pm »

i'm hearing some good news that reviewed serviceable removed rail and sleepers are destined for the Helston Railway.
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Thatcham Crossing
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2021, 08:05:18 am »

Presumably the fact that steel sleepers are being laid in an area with salty sea air has been considered?
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2021, 08:28:43 am »

Presumably the fact that steel sleepers are being laid in an area with salty sea air has been considered?

They will last longer than the timber ones with cast iron chars, concrete is excessive for what is effectively a light railway
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2021, 03:46:27 pm »

I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

It's done like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4&t=111s

1m33 in, and onwards.

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paul7755
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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2021, 12:01:40 pm »

Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

One thing these machines can't yet do is bring their own rails with them - these have to be brought in and placed in position first. That's not so bad for replacement, where the existing track can be used, and the rails kicked off the side of a train. For installation from scratch, or from track so bad it can't be used for a goods train, it must be quite a challenge. I think it means bringing in quite short lengths and welding on site, and in any case the whole length has to be temporarily joined across the gaps that will be finally welded only when tensioning is done.

Maybe the next development step of the machnes will be for that gantry that scoots back and forth the whole length of the train, carrying sleepers up to the front, to pull rails forwards from an even longer train-load of supplies. The gantry runs on rails attached to the sides of the wagons, which are continuous across the gaps between them while allowing for curves. I'm sure some kind of channel equipped with rollers can be included for rail handling too. Note that (at least in Balfour Beatty's one) there's a driver inside the gantry - I'm sure that's a more popular gig than the "seat" down at track level for the operator who appears to be supervising the clipping down of the rails.
On the Borders railway, they used a quite different (Dutch) machine, which effectively pulled long welded rail strings off the front of a rail delivery train, and pushed them ahead of itself, but it relied on the sleepers already being accurately positioned for hundreds of yards ahead in the direction of movement.  They also had a small tracked guidance machine right at the front, and temporary rollers.

A short Rail Engineer video, it?s the very last part:  https://youtu.be/VHWuTvpcco4
Much longer video: https://youtu.be/bSmkO0un5Go

It seems to me on single track you either have to lay the rails ahead of the sleeper delivery train, or lay the sleepers ahead of a rail delivery train, but it would be pretty much impossible to do both at once using a single machine travelling on rails...

Paul
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 01:36:14 pm by paul7755 » Logged
stuving
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2021, 03:09:34 pm »

On the Borders railway, they used a quite different (Dutch) machine, which effectively pulled long welded rail strings off the front of a rail delivery train, and pushed them ahead of itself, but it relied on the sleepers already being accurately positioned for hundreds of yards ahead in the direction of movement.  They also had a small tracked guidance machine right at the front, and temporary rollers.

A short Rail Engineer video, it?s the very last part:  https://youtu.be/VHWuTvpcco4
Much longer video: https://youtu.be/bSmkO0un5Go

It seems to me on single track you either have to lay the rails ahead of the sleeper delivery train, or lay the sleepers ahead of a rail delivery train, but it would be pretty much impossible to do both at once using a single machine travelling on rails...

Paul

I was going to say that (including the video) shows what I was proposing would be quite feasible. Couple that rail-handling machine and wagons to the back of the sleeper wagons, feed rails along/over/through those, and use similar small tracked vehicles and rollers to pull the rails out in front. Depending on gauge issues you might need to lose the bottom layer of sleepers to feed the rails through (on rollers and guided), but it all looks doable.

But I find that Plasser&Theurer have got there first (as well as a Chinese company and perhaps Harsco). Their biggest beast, the SVM 1000, can be configured in several ways, for replacement or for laying from scratch. They put a layer of rails under the sleepers on their adapted wagons (supporting the shuttle-gantry), though other descriptions have separate wagons for rails. I can't find a clear set of words or a video of it operating in this mode, but I suspect it does the pulling-out of rails and the picking them up and laying the sleepers as two separate steps. I also suspect they have never tried to down-size these machines of theirs for British gauge - not a trivial task.

That leaves one more operation that might be better done by train as it involves delivering something very heavy - laying the ballast. I can't see that being done by the same omnipotent machine, but I think it should be possible to lay track on bare soil and put the ballast underneath it afterwards with a separate big machine (possibly in two or more passes). I can imagine that it might take longer to get it tamped and stable afterwards, and the ground preparation would need to be adapted.

However, you need to be careful you are not going to a lot a effort and expense to mechanise something better (and cheaper) done by a bunch of blokes of above-average BMI with much simpler machines and tools. Plus, of course, laying brand-new track isn't that common.
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2021, 06:09:52 pm »

In the light of the last few posts - what prospects of someone developing something better than the much-heralded machine that failed to deliver the goods on the GWML electrification to deliver OHL lines quicker and cheaper?
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