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Author Topic: Six new stations between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel - proposal  (Read 1044 times)
grahame
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« on: November 26, 2020, 03:38:38 pm »

From gov.wales

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South East Wales Transport Commission recommends major improvements for transport in the region

The commission was established to recommend ways to reduce congestion on the M4 motorway without building a new relief road around Newport.

Their main proposal is for a 'network of alternatives', providing a comprehensive and coordinated public transport alternative to the M4. The network is designed to give people and businesses new transport options that do not use the motorway ? or indeed a car.

This centres on improving rail provision between Cardiff, Newport and Bristol by upgrading the existing four tracks of the South Wales Main Line, so that these tracks can be used by more trains with more flexibility. For the first time, this would allow for local, commuting services to run frequently without disrupting express rail services. They also suggest an ambitious rail station building programme, which would add six new rail stations between Cardiff and the River Severn.

To complement existing stations at Cardiff Central, Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction, the proposed new stations would be: Newport Road (Cardiff), Cardiff Parkway (St Mellons), Newport West, Newport East (Somerton), Llanwern and Magor.

The rail backbone would be supported by new rapid bus and cycle corridors across the region, especially within Newport. Taken together, over 90 percent of Cardiff and Newport?s population would live within a mile of a rail station or rapid bus corridor if the proposals are taken forward. Many of these recommendations can be delivered through upgrades to the existing rail and road network. 

Commission Chairman Lord Burns says:

The area around the M4 is a very important economic corridor for Wales. It is expanding and becoming an attractive place for people to work and live. Just like similar regions in the UK and other European countries, it needs a range of attractive, affordable and coordinated transport options to fulfil its potential.

It is clear that people in South East Wales do not have good alternatives to the M4. Many people have little choice but to use the motorway, given the lack of public transport options. We believe that a competitively priced, efficient and reliable public transport network could become the first choice for many travellers.

Even a moderate reduction in the number of cars travelling on the M4 could result in a significant improvement to the travel flow. The changes we are suggesting would generate considerable extra capacity in our region?s transport system. This shift to public and active transport would have many wider benefits beyond relieving congestion, including cutting air pollution, improving public health, and providing better access to jobs and services for everyone.
Beyond infrastructure, the report recommends:

new ways to organise transport services, speeding up interchange, coordinating timetables and integrating ticketing
a new governance model so there is a 'single guiding mind' to organise the whole public transport network
* measures to reduce the need to travel, including superfast broadband-enabled remote working sites so people can work closer to home
* local authorities consider introducing a workplace parking levy to influence travel choices, once public transport improvements have been made
* a transport-focused approach to planning, ensuring developments are built around the public transport network rather than the motorway
The commission?s final recommendations follow their earlier fast-track recommendations relating to M4 traffic management, which included replacing the current variable speed limit with a new average 50mph speed control and measures to improve lane discipline on the approach to the Brynglas tunnels.
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grahame
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2020, 03:58:03 pm »

More Very interesting reading - main report:
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-11/south-east-wales-transport-commission-final-recommendations.pdf

Rail technical data:
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-11/rail-technical-background.pdf





Good so see all the cross modal studies ... but I find it gobsmacking that the whole seems to stop at Severn Tunnel Junction when there's so much more industry and residence within another few miles.   Almost as if it's in another country.  Oh - wait ....
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2020, 07:11:30 pm »

Just occasionally I wonder if Pilning would be better off if it was in Wales?...
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 12:51:17 am »

Just occasionally I wonder if Pilning would be better off if it was in Wales?...

We now appear to have a very unbalanced proposal for the Cardiff - Bristol line; utterly logical to have a local shuttle of between 2 and 4 trains an hour all stations ... and with stations every few miles. The Welsh study has done a good job of this, but then you have a gap of one station that needs serving (Pilning) and one that needs building (Aztec West) ... a couple more stations that are in place then one or two more suburban ones needed on Filton Bank.  What you have prior to those fill-ins is to some extent what has got left by accidents of history; what you would have as suggested is a proper modern mass transit system. 


Need to revive http://www.sewweb.info which has been on something of a campaign rest, with a look to more clearly retaining the character of the residential areas near to the first station on the England side while at the same time connecting the trains into central Bristol to a park and ride from the motorway junction already built but not yet connected.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 12:56:23 am by grahame » Logged

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TonyK
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 05:49:42 pm »

Just occasionally I wonder if Pilning would be better off if it was in Wales?...

You mean it isn't?
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Now, please!
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 04:34:05 pm »

Just occasionally I wonder if Pilning would be better off if it was in Wales?...

You mean it isn't?
Pillning Uchaf closed when the tunnel replaced the Aust ferry and Pillning Isaf is a shadow of its former self..
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 10:14:36 pm »

Uchaf=Upper
Isaf= Lower or lowest
Just in case you didn't know 🤔
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2020, 11:52:25 pm »

Good gag but to go into pedant made...

Pilning Low Level, or Isaf if you like, closed in November 1964. It had trains to and from Severn Beach.

I suppose you could say there was once a New Passage Station, and New Passage New Halt came along later
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2020, 11:30:45 am »

Logic would suggest a truly integrated Severnside / West of England / South East Wales local service alternating with express and regional trains - following them through the tunnel from Wales and from Stoke Gifford / Patchway from England.  For emergencies when the timetable gets broken, an overtake opportunity at Pilning.

Cardiff CentralCaerdydd Canolog
Newport RoadFfordd Casnewydd
Cardiff ParkwayParcffordd Caerdydd
Newport WestCasnewydd Gorllewin
Newport CentralCasnewydd Cyffredinol
Newport EastCasnewydd Dwyrain
LlanwernLlanwern
MagorMagor
Severn Tunnel JunctionCyffordd Twnnel Hafren
PilningPorth Giat Y Gorllewin
Aztec WestParc Busnes Gorllewin Aztec
PatchwayFfordd Patch
Filton Abbey WoodPren Abaty Filton
HorfieldMaes Butain
Ashley DownAshley I Lawr
Stapleton RoadFfordd Stondin Ef
Lawrence HillBryn Lawrence
Bristol Temple MeadsBryste Melinau Deml

I have taken official station names in English and Welsh where I have them - done my best on the others but am very open for better translations.  In practise, I suspect that some of the English names would be used in Welsh, like Llanwern and Magor are in the other direction.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2020, 11:41:55 am »

Interesting concept Cardiff S Bahn.

We now appear to have a very unbalanced proposal for the Cardiff - Bristol line; utterly logical to have a local shuttle of between 2 and 4 trains an hour all stations ... and with stations every few miles. The Welsh study has done a good job of this, but then you have a gap of one station that needs serving (Pilning) and one that needs building (Aztec West) ... a couple more stations that are in place then one or two more suburban ones needed on Filton Bank.  What you have prior to those fill-ins is to some extent what has got left by accidents of history; what you would have as suggested is a proper modern mass transit system. 

Need to revive http://www.sewweb.info which has been on something of a campaign rest, with a look to more clearly retaining the character of the residential areas near to the first station on the England side while at the same time connecting the trains into central Bristol to a park and ride from the motorway junction already built but not yet connected.

I think Grahame has hit the nail on the head when he points out that the English side is negleted. It would make snese to continue to Temple Meads. Although it does raise the question where will passenger from Stations East of Newport change for Birmingham and London. Presumably they'll get a ride down and up the bank. (assuming it's the same fare via Parkway as Chippenham)
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2020, 12:31:02 pm »

Good gag but to go into pedant made...

Pilning Low Level, or Isaf if you like, closed in November 1964. It had trains to and from Severn Beach.

I suppose you could say there was once a New Passage Station, and New Passage New Halt came along later

Ah, my rail history was wrong, sorry. I tried to look it up on an old map but didn't get anywhere. I thought Pilning Low Level was the present station and Pilning High Level was the one on the line to the ferry that ran before the Tunnel opened.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2020, 12:33:10 pm »


I have taken official station names in English and Welsh where I have them - done my best on the others but am very open for better translations.  In practise, I suspect that some of the English names would be used in Welsh, like Llanwern and Magor are in the other direction.

Akternatively, why not just not bother?

I am no fan of bilingual signage, and indeed it brings with it ita own pitfalls. Does anybody else remember this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm

If the Welsh decide to change place names to the Welsh version, then thats fine by me. In future we would simply get used to going to Abertawe or Pen Y Bont or Y Fenni et al, and it would do the English no harm at all in having to learn how to pronounce them (as far as they are able, because 24 years of being married to a Welsh woman has told me that not only will the Welsh instinctively correct anyone non-Welsh who dares to attenpt to pronounce their place names, but also that they will often argue between themselves about pronunciation).

In the reverse direction, I doubt there are many Welsh people who dont understand English (even if they pretend not to) so they in turn would need to get used to leaving their language at the border.

The only downside I can see is some people from both countries deciding that the person they are talking to is a bit deaf, so raise their voices. Like they do when they go to France or Spain...



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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2020, 01:04:10 pm »


Ah, my rail history was wrong, sorry. I tried to look it up on an old map but didn't get anywhere. I thought Pilning Low Level was the present station and Pilning High Level was the one on the line to the ferry that ran before the Tunnel opened.

The names Pilning Low Level and High Level were something of a misnomer.

Pilning High level is the one ostensibky still open today.

Pilning Low Level was a timber single platform affair on the other side of what is now the yard/ car park. and on the original formation that headed to New Passage. The line to Severn Beach turned off sharply to the south west just before the old end of the line at the jetty

If it was actually at a lowere level than High Level is a moot point, as if it was there were only a few feet in it!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2020, 06:05:09 pm »

Bit slow to come to this thread, but I see grahame was in naughty schoolboy mode when he translated Horfield as 'Maes Butain'...

I'm reminded of Adge Cutler's 'Bristol Song', with its line 'All the girls in Horfield, are quite respectable really'. This kind of thing was considered amusing in the 1970s.

Anyway, from my researches, and oddly enough all things considered, a better translation would be 'Tir Agored Budr', though FoSBR would have it as 'Ffordd Gwnstabl'
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:12:14 pm by Red Squirrel » Logged
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2020, 12:15:22 pm »

FoSBR's take on all this:

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New stations between Bristol and Cardiff?



The South East Wales Transport Commission recommends that six new train stations should be opened between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction. Meanwhile, the West of England Combined Authority (WECA) plans to open one new station at its end of the Cardiff to Bristol route, and will consider the possibility of rebuilding the footbridge at Pilning some time in the next ten to twenty-five years. Is this a balanced approach to cross-border connectivity?

...continues
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