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Author Topic: WECA Rail Plan  (Read 2035 times)
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2020, 11:30:05 am »

I am all for supporting sustainabe rransport but thinking anyone could turn a profit on 4tph to The Beach is absolute Cloud Cuckoo Land fantasy.

Who has suggested this?
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2020, 11:38:38 am »

Is Brabazon being used as an official name now for the possible station? I thought it was being referred to as Filton North. The name used in the document is North Filton, which seems to reverse the traditional ordering of place + modifier. Though I note that 'Line doubling between Montpelier and Filton' doesn't specify whether 'Filton' refers to Abbey Wood, North or the Diamond, which is rather remiss/cunning.

All a bit mysterious. Filton from the Montpelier area is Four Track, Now. The line between the two going the long way round is double from Holesworth Junction, but surely the easier way to describe the rest of the route would be to call it the "Severn Beach Line from Montpelier to Avonmouth". The point of the exercise is to enable 3 tph between Severn Beach and Temple Meads, which I can't see being possible on the Severn Beach line as is. Doubling the line would let you run 3tph via Clifton Down, but are we looking at 2 tph that way, plus one via a new chord at Holesworth?

My spies have gained clarification from the author. It should indeed have read "...from Montpelier to Narroways Junction"; he goes on to say that this isn't the only option. The Network Rail Bristol Sub-Regional Continuous Modular Strategic Planning (CMSP) study, due to start in April 2021, will be looking at this.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2020, 12:52:13 pm »

4tph to Avonmouth I can see but not to Severn Beach, at least at present. A half-hourly service though, yes. A metro service should serve a metropolis. It's arguable whether Bristol, with a population of just under half a million, qualifies as a metropolis, but certainly Avonmouth feels like a part of the Bristol conurbation; Severn Beach does not.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2020, 01:53:55 pm »

4tph to Avonmouth I can see but not to Severn Beach, at least at present. A half-hourly service though, yes. A metro service should serve a metropolis. It's arguable whether Bristol, with a population of just under half a million, qualifies as a metropolis, but certainly Avonmouth feels like a part of the Bristol conurbation; Severn Beach does not.

Indeed. That's why, as far as I am aware, no-one is suggesting a 4tph service to Severn Beach.


There is a major difference between Penarth and Severn Beach.

In 2011 Penarth had a population of 22,083. Severn Beach had a population of 2,182.


Based on Bristol City Council's latest numbers, Avonmouth's population is 21,400.


Both of them have a hinterland in terms of catchment area but Penart wioll win hands down on that measure too.


As well as Avonmouth, the 'Beach line also serves Stoke Bishop ward (12,100), Clifton Down (11,600), Redland (13,100), Cotham (12,100), Ashley (19,100) and Lawrence Hill (19,500).

So the total population served by the line, with the best figures I can get, is around 89,800. Penarth's hinterland may serve more or fewer people than that, but I doubt the numbers are much different either way. In any case, it's not a competition is it?
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johnneyw
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2020, 08:01:24 pm »

The Beach Line catchment area will also be boosted by the Portway P&R Station whenever it's built.  The last I heard, the most recent of the delay announcements assured us that construction would commence at the end of this year.  BCC usually can't resist a bit of a fanfare to herald the start of something like this just prior to the diggers arriving so the silence right now makes me think we might be due for yet another delay announcement.
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TonyK
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2020, 08:18:15 pm »

The Beach Line catchment area will also be boosted by the Portway P&R Station whenever it's built.  The last I heard, the most recent of the delay announcements assured us that construction would commence at the end of this year.  BCC usually can't resist a bit of a fanfare to herald the start of something like this just prior to the diggers arriving so the silence right now makes me think we might be due for yet another delay announcement.

A Bristol councillor told me recently that it is "a mess", without elaboration.
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Now, please!
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2020, 06:06:45 pm »

I think this means they said 'yes':

Quote
1. The West of England Joint Committee RESOLVED:
To adopt the 10 Year Rail Delivery Programme and to endorse its programme of schemes as the basis for future rail investment in the West of England area.
2. The West of England Joint Committee RESOLVED:
To delegate authority to the WECA Chief Executive Officer in conjunction with the West of England Unitary Authority Chief Executive Officers to approve the project scope and value for money assessment and release of funding for the next phase of MetroWest Phase 1a (Severn Beach & Westbury Lines) works up to a value of ?1m from within the Investment Fund from within the agreed ?116.4m of MetroWest Phase 1 budget to facilitate the start of enhanced services.
3. The West of England Combined Authority Committee RESOLVED:
To delegate responsibility for approval of the Full Business Case for up to ?552k from the Investment Fund for the Access for All (AfA) station enhancements to the WECA Chief Executive Officer in conjunction with the West of England Unitary Authority Chief Executive Officers.
4. The West of England Joint Committee RESOLVED:
To delegate authority to the WECA Chief Executive Officer in conjunction with the West of England Unitary Authority Chief Executive Officers to approve the signing of an Enhanced Service and Funding Support Agreement with First Great Western Limited to support initial start-up costs to enable operation of MetroWest Services.
Source: WECA
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2020, 01:15:06 pm »

Quote
A long-lost Bristol train station that shut 50 years ago could be reopened under ambitious plans for the region?s rail over the next decade.

Campaigners including MP Kerry McCarthy are celebrating after St Anne?s Park station in Brislington received up to ?50,000 from the Government to begin the process of restoring it back to life.

It is one of a raft of projects outlined in the West of England Combined Authority?s (Weca?s) first 10-year rail delivery plan approved on Friday, December 4, following agreement with Network Rail.
Article goes on to mention Charfield, North Filton, etc.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristols-long-lost-train-station-4775974
Also a candidate for the irrelevant stock photo thread!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2020, 01:33:27 pm »

Indeed!

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11558.msg298021#msg298021
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2020, 04:34:54 pm »

I am all for supporting sustainabe transport but thinking anyone could turn a profit on 4tph to The Beach is absolute Cloud Cuckoo Land fantasy.

Who has suggested this?

Id forgotten I hadnt responded to this, so thanks for the thread resurrection!

I was responding to a specific sentence in one of your earlier posts, which was:


If there is ever to be a 15-minute service on the 'Beach line (which is hinted at in the report), it will as you suggest require that most (if not all) of the line is doubled.

The inclusion in parentheses of "if not all" led me to believe that you were talking about the whole line right up to the stop blocks in Severn Beach. Wih that possibly erroneous thought my in mind you then went on to suggest similarities between Penarth and Severn Beach, which do have one similarity in that they are terminal stations where once the line carried on. In terms of population and catchment area, however, they are about as alike as Freshford and Trownridge!

Had it  not been for that I would have concluded you meant the line as far as Avonmouth. and on that I could agree. The ine as far as Avonmouth has plenty of catchment and, from my own experience of travelling down there about once a year, the existing service is hard pressed to cope with the demand even off peak. Whilst talking about spurious comparisons Clihton Down reminds me slightly of an XC train at Birmingham New Street where, in both directions, half an trainload gets off and another half a trainload gets on!

So yes, as far as Avonmouth 4tph could be feasible. Beyond Avonmouth is another matter, unless they are going back to Bristol on the Henbury Loop
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2020, 06:20:51 pm »

I had not anticipated that interpretation. I suppose this is why people employ proof-readers!

If the idea of a Severn Beach to Yate service gets off the ground, things get interesting. Such a service might put the tin hat on the generally understood 'loop' service, but would allow for a half-hourly service from SVB alternately terminating at Westbury or Yate.

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johnneyw
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2020, 10:35:45 pm »

I had not anticipated that interpretation. I suppose this is why people employ proof-readers!

If the idea of a Severn Beach to Yate service gets off the ground, things get interesting. Such a service might put the tin hat on the generally understood 'loop' service, but would allow for a half-hourly service from SVB alternately terminating at Westbury or Yate.



I'm cautiously beginning to warm to an "alternative Henbury Loop" created by an SVB to Yate service running through Henbury, the YTL arena and Parkway, if only because the original loop seems more unlikely to become a reality given the complications with the Port of Bristol level crossing access and the Port Authority's objections surrounding this.

One consequence of this would be to change Severn Beach Station from somewhere that was once upon a time seemingly in terminal decline into an important local/regional rail interchange.
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ellendune
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2020, 10:54:57 pm »

Are you suggesting a new chord from Severn Beach onto the Henbury line?
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johnneyw
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2020, 11:20:47 pm »

Are you suggesting a new chord from Severn Beach onto the Henbury line?

I think that was the subject of some conjecture earlier in this thread, resulting from analysis of the WECA report. Possible though?
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2020, 11:27:22 am »

Are you suggesting a new chord from Severn Beach onto the Henbury line?

I'm not suggesting it, I'm just the messenger! What the report says, on p.47, is:

Strategic enhancement: Henbury Line enhancement
Change: Half hourly service from Severn Beach to Yate via Bristol Parkway and/or linked half hourly service on the Portishead line
Infrastructure required:
  • Bristol Travel to Work CMSP.
  • New North facing chord Severn Beach to Henbury line.
  • Remodelling of Holesmouth Junction.
  • Enhancement Filton Diamond.
  • Westerleigh Junction enhancement.
  • New platform at Severn Beach.
  • Doubling of sections of the Portishead line with signalling enhancements.
  • Rolling stock provision.
  • Timetable change.
  • Passenger and platform capacity
JLTP4 /LIS objectives: A (strong)
Western Gateway Conditional Outputs:
  • Choice
  • Social mobility
  • Decarbonisation
  • Growth
  • Bristol to Yate to Gloucester
VfM/evidence/deliverability/: C (low)
Benefits (Passenger, Freight, Wider): A
Timescales: C (10-25 years)
Costs: H (>?100m)

JLTP4: version 4 of WECA's Joint Local Transport Plan.
LIS: Local Industrial Strategy
CMSP: Continuous Modular Strategic Planning

Re-reading this, I see that the plan is to have trains from SVB alternatively going to Yate or Portishead (as opposed to Westbury).

P.46, incidentally, refers to a 3tph service from SVB to 'BTM' (presumably BRI)...  I'm not sure how all this fits in with the 4tph service from BRI to WSB... Confused? I certainly am.
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