Will Cornwall be worse off after completion of Brexit?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From The BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page), at the risk of starting an incendiary thread.

Cornwall could be "significantly worse off" after Brexit, receiving just 5% of what it needs to replace EU^» (European Union - about) funding, according to a local councillor.

One of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s poorest areas, Cornwall has applied for ?700m over 10 years from the government to replace EU cash.
However, there are fears that the county could get as little as ?1.8m in the first year.

The government said it would work with "councils and other key stakeholders on how best to use" money it provided.

Cornwall has (my understanding) been a consistant and significant net beneficiary of funding via the EU over the years, and on purely financial terms the decision to leave the EU will leave them worse off.   Of course, EU membership or lack of it is about more than just money, so this is just one factor which needed to be weighed up.  Cornwall voted "leave" so there is no realistic option for them to say "but we didn't want to go but were dragged by the rest of the UK".

There are a number of excellent public transport schemes underway in Cornwall, and with the zero carbon agenda much work on the horizon - electric trains (OHLE) to Penzance and electric trains (battery) to Looe and to St Ives ...

[REVUpminster]

It was good of the EU^» (European Union - about) to spend so much on Cornwall; money Britain had given to the EU in the first place.

I am sure all the second home owners, in places like St Ives, St Mawes, Newquay etc, and celebrities benefitted greatly from all the improvements.

Is that incendiary enough!

Devon did get a few (6 services, 1 train) euro trains running between Paignton and Newton Abbot

[Robin Summerhill]

I shall try to be as non-incendiary as possible

It was good of the EU^» (European Union - about) to spend so much on Cornwall; money Britain had given to the EU in the first place.

I am sure all the second home owners, in places like St Ives, St Mawes, Newquay etc, and celebrities benefitted greatly from all the improvements.

This is a well rehearsed argument put forward in some quarters but it doesnt really look at the whole picture. The Regional Development budget is/ was designed to give assistance to the most needy areas in the EU, not unlike the way that national governments give money to their own regions for many reasons. Governments collect lots of money to spend on various things.

In another post on another thread I recently mentioned the dual carriageway that now runs all the way from Redruth to Exeter. So by extension one could eaily say It was good of the government to spend so much on Cornwall's roads; money Cornwall had given to the government in the first place" but it hasnt got the same ring to it has it? Althogh, having now written that, Im not sure that that project wasn't funded by th EU and, if it was, I wonder whether it would have been done had Whitehall been the ones dishing out the brass?

As I see it, the making of Regional Development Aid an EU function rather than a domestic one is that it takes the local politicking out of the equation; areas get the money because they need it and not because they have marginal constituencies or it is in the seat of some important minister. Other political examples are available.

On what the future holds for Cornwall post-Brexit my money is staying put in my pocket and Im not even going to walk past a betting shop, because two completely opposing scenarios spring to mind:

1. If Cornwall is, as it currentl seems to be, full of safe tory seats, they wont be getting very much; and

2. If they find themseves worse off Cornwall, like other needy areas of the country, are likely to thank Boris Johnson for Brexit in exacty the same way as the electorate thanked Winston Churchill in the 1945 election.

[Bmblbzzz]

A thread for being incendiary? Here's my petrol on the flames:

A book is a device to ignite the imagination.

Alan Bennett
He probably said that before the internet, so I think we could take it to encompass some online reading; maybe this forum?

[GBM]

I shall try to be as non-incendiary as possible

In another post on another thread I recently mentioned the dual carriageway that now runs all the way from Redruth to Exeter..

Er, not quite.
Dual carriageway from Camborne to Chiverton roundabout (turn right for Truro).
Single road from Chiverton to Carland Cross roundabout.
Thence dual to Exeter and on up.....
Planning stages going through for dualling between Chiverton and Carland - once completed it WILL be dualled between Exeter and Camborne, but that won't be until (maybe) December 2022.

https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roads/road-projects/A30+Carland+Cross/A30+newsletter+-+Issue+7.pdf
 
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/south-west/a30-chiverton-to-carland-cross/

[REVUpminster]

Cornwall was a Lib/Dem stronghold and the country fell out of love with the 1945 Labour government and Churchill was elected in 1951 despite or because of creating the NHS, nationalising the railways, steel and coal.

We have to remember why the old EEC was invented was to stop France and Germany fighting each other so all the rules are bent to favour them and  now as the EU^» (European Union - about) forces other member states to buy their goods at inflated prices due to the high tariffs they impose on outsiders. It's one giant protection racket. De Gaulle vetoed our entry a couple of times because he knew we would never conform. 

[Andy]

As I see it, there's no point in answering this question with anything other than "we shall see." For better or worse, not only Cornwall but also the rest of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) will soon discover whether those "sunlit uplands" were nothing more than a ?sd-induced nostalgia trip or if "project fear" was indeed baseless scaremongering. Up till now, it's been about visions; in 2024, it'll be time for the voters to pass their verdict on the reality, as defined by the current Government in the form of whatever arrangement with the EU^» (European Union - about) that it eventually settles on.

PS - Robin Summerhill, there was indeed European involvement in the A30 upgrade.
https://www.cornwallislesofscillygrowthprogramme.org.uk/projects/a30-carland-chiverton-cross-development-phase/

NB Although the county as a whole voted Leave, one of the 6 parliamentary constituencies (Truro & Falmouth) voted Remain.



 


 

 

[Jamsdad]

It was good of the EU^» (European Union - about) to spend so much on Cornwall; money Britain had given to the EU in the first place.

I am sure all the second home owners, in places like St Ives, St Mawes, Newquay etc, and celebrities benefitted greatly from all the improvements.

Is that incendiary enough!

Devon did get a few (6 services, 1 train) euro trains running between Paignton and Newton Abbot

Amongst the most important EU investments in Cornwall were to create the University in Falmouth, develop a series of skills and innovation centres, support major developments in agri-food and some serious redevelopment in Camborne-Redruth, not to forget the Mainline Resignalling and capacity enhancements which has given a half hourly service on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) mainline, and associated growth on the branch lines. Sadly the Brexiteers failed to recognise how much transformation of the Cornish economy occured as a result of European investment.

[REVUpminster]

It was good of the EU^» (European Union - about) to spend so much on Cornwall; money Britain had given to the EU in the first place.

I am sure all the second home owners, in places like St Ives, St Mawes, Newquay etc, and celebrities benefitted greatly from all the improvements.

Is that incendiary enough!

Devon did get a few (6 services, 1 train) euro trains running between Paignton and Newton Abbot

And still one of the poorest regions in Britain.
Amongst the most important EU investments in Cornwall were to create the University in Falmouth, develop a series of skills and innovation centres, support major developments in agri-food and some serious redevelopment in Camborne-Redruth, not to forget the Mainline Resignalling and capacity enhancements which has given a half hourly service on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) mainline, and associated growth on the branch lines. Sadly the Brexiteers failed to recognise how much transformation of the Cornish economy occured as a result of European investment.

[GBM]

Sadly the Brexiteers failed to recognise how much transformation of the Cornish economy occurred as a result of European investment.

Like the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Brexit vote, this will split the forum vote as well.
I think Boris won the election vote by a simple theme of "Let's get it done"! The argument had gone on too long and everyone was sick and fed up with the stalemate.
Whilst the country was divided, what finally swung it the Boris way was the total indecision of Parliament over several years.
Yes, Cornwall voted leave; as said above, only time will tell if that was right or wrong. 
The country is STILL split with many being certain that the world will end for the UK very shortly.
Maybe Cornwall will soon end up bankrupt and closed for business; only time will tell 

[REVUpminster]

All that investment by the EU^» (European Union - about) and still one of the poorest areas in country.

About seven years ago I went on holiday to Playa del Retamar, Almeria, in a hotel used by 90% Spanish families, on a pilgrimage to Fort Bravo/Texas Holywood and saw new roads, new hospital and new housing. Nobody lived there; they were empty.

[Bob_Blakey]

To a large extent it will depend on whether Boris and his mates are serious about the stated across the board 'levelling up'; politically it may be decided that only the former 'red wall' constituencies in the Midlands & North require significant additional financing to maintain the newly established voting patterns while there could be a calculation that Cornwall will continue to (largely) support the Conservatives regardless of how they are treated. Even in Boris' electorally strong position that is not a risk I would entertain.

One thing I do think however is certain; earlier this year BBC2 ran a 6-part series called 'Cornwall: This Fishing Life' which, in my opinion, indicated very strongly that large numbers of the Cornish will withdraw their political support if the 'authorities' do not do what they consider to be the right thing as regards fishing management & second home ownership.   

[eightf48544]

Throwing large rock into the pond to see where the ripples go.

There seems to be  a lot of talk about Sovereignty and loss thereof. It seems to me thay we have already lost any Sovereignty we might have had to CORVID, as has the EU^» (European Union - about) and the rest of world.  We are under the severest restrictions ever in peacetime

IMO^▸ (in my opinion) any sensible government would kick BREXIT into the long grass and get on with getting our lives back to normal By which I mean being able to be in confined space with a group of people to listen to a talk and go down the pub after or even getting on a train to London to have lunch with a mate.

It's crazy to attempt BREXIT "Deal or No Deal" in the middle of the XMAS New Year break in the middle of a pandemic. The government should be working flat out to work out on how to contain CORVID. They probably should be co-operating with the EU and the WHO on this rather making stupid insulting comments. Unless they are using BREXIT as a distraction from the virus and their. inability to control it.

The farmers, EU fruit pickers, hauliers, public transport workers, supermarkets, power workers, sewerage workers etc have worked miracles keeping as fed warm and hygenic. We need to support the NHS and Education not have to worry about tarrifs on imported food stuffs.

As Harold Macmillian might have said when asked about what knocks a govrnemnt off course. Events Dear Boy Events. i think CORVID might be classed as EVENT.

[Andy]

To a large extent it will depend on whether Boris and his mates are serious about the stated across the board 'levelling up'; politically it may be decided that only the former 'red wall' constituencies in the Midlands & North require significant additional financing to maintain the newly established voting patterns while there could be a calculation that Cornwall will continue to (largely) support the Conservatives regardless of how they are treated. Even in Boris' electorally strong position that is not a risk I would entertain.

One thing I do think however is certain; earlier this year BBC2 ran a 6-part series called 'Cornwall: This Fishing Life' which, in my opinion, indicated very strongly that large numbers of the Cornish will withdraw their political support if the 'authorities' do not do what they consider to be the right thing as regards fishing management & second home ownership.   

I think you are right, BUT nowadays just how many voters in Cornwall are concerned with 'Cornish' issues, by which I mean issues such as farming, fishing, second-home ownership/housing, economic support/development (be it from the EU^» (European Union - about) or Westminster...) is something I am not so sure about. Just 10% of the population identified as 'Cornish' on the 2011 census. I wonder whether the remainder are 'Kernocentric' or 'Anglocentric' or 'Britocentric' in their views - or even if a geographical/ethnic identity' filter comes into play at all.   

[Geoff DC]

I think you are right, BUT nowadays just how many voters in Cornwall are concerned with 'Cornish' issues, by which I mean issues such as farming, fishing, second-home ownership/housing, economic support/development (be it from the EU^» (European Union - about) or Westminster...) is something I am not so sure about. Just 10% of the population identified as 'Cornish' on the 2011 census. I wonder whether the remainder are 'Kernocentric' or 'Anglocentric' or 'Britocentric' in their views - or even if a geographical/ethnic identity' filter comes into play at all.   

The census form does not have a tick box for Cornish - it has to be written in on the box for other.

There has been a long running campaign to make it a choice tick box, but Westminster appear to not want to recognise Cornwall's constitutional status as a Duchy or it's inhabitants as Cornish, in spite of Cornish being recognised as a national minority