Delay repay on multi leg journeys

[whole diary]

[TonyN]

I have been meaning to get round to putting this on the forum for some time. Sorry its rather long. What do members think I should have done to make the failed claims a success.
All these journeys where made in 2018 or 2019

1. Success
Journey was Pershore (PSH) to Yarmouth Isle of Wight (YMH) leaving on the first train on a Saturday Morning.
Journey legs Pershore-Reading, Reading-Basingstoke, Basingstoke-Brockenhurst, Brockenhurst-Lymington pier and Ferry to Yarmouth.
On time to Basingstoke then the next train a Waterloo Weymouth fast was delayed at Wimbledon.
I caught a Bournemouth stopper that left Basingstoke more or less on time and this was actually before the fast was due to depart. However the stopper is due to wait at Southampton Central for the fast to overtake. So I arrived at Brockenhurst after the Lymington branch train had departed. I caught the next train to Lymington pier arriving 30 minutes later than planned. This made me 1 hour late at Yarmouth as the ferry was running hourly.
I made a delay repay application online to SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) or SWT^▸ (South West Trains) not sure who was running things at the time. I received 50% of the cost of my single journey including the part that is for the ferry so from a rail point of view I got more than I expected.

2. Fail
Journey was New Street to Pershore arriving at Pershore at around 19:00 on a weekday. I was at New Street about 17:10 and had a choice of trains to Worcester 17:20, 17:50 and 18:00.
I caught the 17:20 as I had no reason to hang about at New Street although a Journey planner would tell me to catch the 18:00 as that provided at 10 minute connection to the Worcester-Pershore train.
On arrival at Worcester Shrub Hill on the 17:20 I should have had to wait about 50 minutes (18:00 to 18:50) for the Pershore train. However I found that the Pershore train was cancelled. It was an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) and the French windscreen wipers had failed. This meant I had to wait until 20:00 for the next train to Pershore. I enquired of the West Midland Trains staff at Shrub Hill but was told GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would not provide a taxi. The last bus from Worcester to Pershore leaves at about 18:10 from the bus station and I did not have time to get there.
While I was waiting at Shrub Hill the next trains from New Street failed to arrive due to an incident at Bromsgrove. So if I had waited for the 17:50 or 18:00 from new street I would have been very late. and certainly not caught the train to Pershore at 20:00
I tried to claim from GWR but the computer repeatedly threw out my claim. On the grounds that the journey did not exist.

So what should I have put on my claim?
Should I have claimed from West Midland as thought I had caught the 18:00?

3. Fail
Journey was Banbury to Pershore leaving Banbury around 14:45 on a weekday. When I arrived at Banbury station I found that Cross Country southbound trains where running about an Hour and 50 late. But as they run every half hour and I had arrived 10 minutes before a train was due I arrived in Oxford almost on time.
I had a 50 minute wait in Oxford for the next Pershore train. One had left on time 10 minutes before I arrived and they run hourly so I left the station and went for a walk along the canal. When I returned to Oxford station 40 minutes later I discovered that the train that had left just before I arrived at Oxford had struck a deer on the single line to Charlbury. The line was blocked and all trains where cancelled. I joined a huge queue and was put in a taxi with 4 other passengers for Pershore. This was done very quickly and efficiently by the GWR staff and the taxi operators man on the ground, The taxi driver was not happy as it was now 16:15 getting dark and he was due to hand over to a fresh driver at 17:30. But was now headed for somewhere he did not know and would not get back to Oxford for hours. But the supervisor told him to get on with it if he wanted to work on the station taxi rank. So we where on our way but the driver did not know his way and none of the others in the taxi seemed to know the way ether. I told the driver to get out of Oxford towards Woodstock and I would direct him from there. It was now the rush hour so we didn't rush anywhere. I was about 2 and a half  hours late getting to Pershore. I also spent most of the journey twisting round to talk to the driver as I was in one of the rearward facing seats in a black cab.
I tried to claim but again the computer could not find the journey as I was not sure what time the train from Banbury to Oxford should have left.

How should I have entered this claim on the website?   

[Hafren]

It's a pity there's no 'comments' box (IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)); the cynic in me says it's in the hope that people just won't bother going through with more complex claims, but it's just as likely to be because no-one's really considered more complex cases when designing the process.

I think if I had this issue I'd put in as close a journey as possible e.g. for '2' the delay on the Bham - Worcs leg, and see if the system accepts that, in the hope that it would then fail validation only after it's in the system. Then GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would probably get in touch to tell me it's not their issue, which would create a 'case' with a real human, and I could then explain the issue. The worst outcome would be if the dummy journey entered successfully went through as a claim, but with a lower value than the actual delay!

[ChrisB]

Personally, I use the paper form to claim on these types of journey & add a written explanation if necessary - and never failed to receive compensation. It's not much extra work as long as you keep a few paper claim forms to hand (I think there may even be a pdf of it on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website now?)

The online version is linked to the journey planner (which always looks for the quickest journeys such that catching an earlier train is never considered to be a realistic journey. One of its many faults IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion))

[Bob_Blakey]

I think the approach taken by Cross Country XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))) - who delivered SWTSMBO^▸ (She Who Thinks She Must Be Obeyed) and myself to Wakefield an hour late on 24th December (although the fault actually lay with Network Rail, Mother Nature or god depending on your view of these things) - might be best in that you submit an initial basic claim and then get a pretty rapid holding reply which invites the submission of relevant additional information, something which can be ignored for simple cases.

However I was a tad surprised that XC insisted on having the name and address of my fellow passenger so that they could pay two separate refunds if it was deemed appropriate. Presumably somebody in XC customer service has misinterpreted the meaning of 'Delay Repay'.     

[TonyK]

After a disrupted journey to Windermere from Temple Meads, I made my first ever claim for delay-repay. The first leg, Bristol to Birmingham, looked seriously in doubt as RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) showed it running 38 minutes late from Plymouth as we prepared to head for the station. While we were considering whether or not to head off for the train an hour earlier, I checked again, and found a STP entry with an extra 1235 Cross Country train. So we got that, our originally planned service, and left bang on time.

After an incident free ride, we boarded the Avanti train for Edinburgh and left Birmingham on time, but just before Sandwell and Dudley, we stopped abruptly. Someone had jumped from a road bridge on the track in front of our train, and had been hit. Amazingly, he wasn't badly hurt, but we remained there for 45 minutes, before moving again to terminate at Wolverhampton, for obvious reasons of staff welfare. Not their fault. We eventually boarded the next Edinburgh train, an Avanti diesel, which I didn't know they had. We missed our planned Northern Rail service to Windermere, and arrived just over an hour late.

I had bought the tickets (for 3 of us) through GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), but made my claim to Avanti as it was their train that was delayed. I was surprised that it was met at all, but it was paid in full, £126.00.

I chuckled at the reference on my bank statement "BANK GIRO CREDIT REF FIRST CUSTOMER CON". Not the first, surely?

[froome]

The complexity around Delay Repay is why I often just don't bother trying to make a claim. This particularly applies to multi leg journeys. I am sure large numbers of passengers just don't bother because they have run into complexities previously.

I have just made my second claim for one of these to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). Both times, GWR were not the problem on the journey, the delay came from the onward service. I have done this as I understand , mainly from this forum, that in these cases you send your claim to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) running the first leg of your journey, regardless of where the delay took place. I have tried to confirm this on the web (which I think took me onto the National Rail website) but there didn't seem to be clear advice as to where to send your claim there. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) I have previously tried sending my claim to the TOC responsible for the delay, but had it returned then (this was some years ago).

Both times I sent it by mail, and then got a text or email from GWR acknowledging receiving the claim, very closely followed by another which has a heading which says your claim is  Unsuccessful. IIRC the last time I did this I did then receive the Delay Repay compensation from the TOC that was responsible for the delay, and I am currently assuming this will happen this time. But it is extremely off-putting for a passenger to just receive a message saying your claim is unsuccessful, and some advice on how to appeal. It mentions the TOC who ran the leg where the delay took place, but it doesn't say whether you then have to take action to make a claim from them (which you can't do because you don't have the ticket as you sent it in), or what?

While we have all these separate TOCs, it seems to me that it would be better for all Delay Repay claims, or at least all which make use of more than one TOC, to be handled initially by a body separate from the TOCs.

The other area where Delay Repay seems obtusely complex is the different delay timings that each TOC uses. I do not understand why it isn't just the same for all TOCs.

[Witham Bobby]

I had an unexpected dad's taxi trip to Bristol Airport at the weekend.  Great Western had cancelled the train that my daughter and partner had intended to take from Worcester to Bristol Temple Meads (1452 from Foregate Street), to connect with the airport flyer bus service.  The planned journey involved a change to a faster XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service at Cheltenham Spa.

The partner, who purchased the tickets, first-class, no less, has applied online for a full refund.  Will he get it?

[ChrisB]

That's an abandoned journey, rather than Delay/Repay - so yes, he ought to get a full refund

[Surrey 455]

I have just made my second claim for one of these to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). Both times, GWR were not the problem on the journey, the delay came from the onward service.

I have made a few Delay repay claims recently
Hastings - Tonbridge - Redhill - Dorking Deepdene using SouthEastern, Southern & GWR. Delays to the Southern train caused me to miss the GWR train so I submitted my claim to Southern.

Brighton - Gatwick - Dorking Deepdene - Leatherhead using Gatwick Express, GWR, Southern. The GWR train was cancelled so I submitted my claim to GWR.

Both claims were paid out.

[TonyK]

I should have mentioned our homeward leg of the Lake District trip. From Windermere, we went to Blackpool North, without incident but the three trains from Windermere after ours were cancelled.
A few days layer, we set off from BPN for Bristol, with seats booked from Manchester Piccadilly on the CrossCountry service. I checked RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) as we were leaving Blackpool, and saw that the train inbound to Manchester from Bristol was stuck somewhere after Stoke, and our train to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) was cancelled. After a quick check with the TM^‡(resolve), we jumped off at Preston, took a train to Birmingham, and from there to Bristol. We arrived late, although earlier than we would have had we continued to Manchester. CrossCountry issued a full refund. The cause was a person hit by train, sadly with harsher consequences than the outbound journey.
In November, I had to go to Grantham again. Tiverton Parkway to Paddington was without incident, but while queuing for a pasty at Kings Cross, I saw my train north go from "On time" to "Delayed" to "Cancelled". Lots of helpful advice followed for travellers wanting to go to Leeds Scotland and Norfolk, but none of the staff I spoke to had any advice for me. I sat down with RTT on my phone, and then trotted over to St Pancras for a train to Nottingham, then the Liverpool-Norwich service to Grantham. It was the day before the meeting, so I had time to spare. LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) made a full refund. Signal cable theft, apparently.
Two days later, it all went badly on the way home. I got to Paddington early, in time to see all trains south west subject to pandemonium because of weather. This time, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) made a full refund. Those five journeys were the only rail trips I made between September and November, and four were refunded in full. None of the delays were the fault of the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[froome]

Just out of interest, what happens if you make a claim on an outward journey and get paid a full refund, i.e. the cost of the entire outward and return ticket, when you haven't yet used the return ticket? If that journey was then also delayed, can you make a claim and get a second full refund?

This hasn't happened to me yet, but I have received a full refund on an outward journey that was more than 2 hours late before I made the return journey. As it happened the return journey was fine, so I had no need to make a claim on that.

[LiskeardRich]

Just out of interest, what happens if you make a claim on an outward journey and get paid a full refund, i.e. the cost of the entire outward and return ticket, when you haven't yet used the return ticket? If that journey was then also delayed, can you make a claim and get a second full refund?

This hasn't happened to me yet, but I have received a full refund on an outward journey that was more than 2 hours late before I made the return journey. As it happened the return journey was fine, so I had no need to make a claim on that.

Simple answer, no. If you’ve had the full return cost delay repaid on the outbound journey, you can’t claim on the return journey. Maximum payout is 100% of return ticket cost.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Purely out of curiosity on my part ... would they have any way of checking that, if someone else were to put in a subsequent claim for the return journey? 

[ChrisB]

Suspect the ticket number is added to a register of some type/sort

[LiskeardRich]

Purely out of curiosity on my part ... would they have any way of checking that, if someone else were to put in a subsequent claim for the return journey? 

I’d claimed a 2 hours late from one operator on outbound, attempted a claim on return journey for 1 hour, and it was rejected as maximum amount already paid.