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Author Topic: G7 Summit - Cornwall - June 2021  (Read 18459 times)
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« Reply #180 on: June 11, 2021, 08:37:15 pm »



Btw The Royal train has entered Cornwall and is believed to be stabled at Burngullow.



16.15 ex Penzance held at Bodmin Parkway for about 15 mins, presumedly allowing it to clear Largin
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ellendune
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« Reply #181 on: June 11, 2021, 09:23:14 pm »

Securing the whole path from Paddington to PZ and the travelled through Stations would have been a nightmare and incredibly expensive too. Any incidents en route (such as yesterday's fatality) would have made things very difficult too. Air seems to me to be the only logical way for him to get here.

Btw The Royal train has entered Cornwall (from Windsor and Eton Riverside) and is believed to be stabled at Burngullow.

So security for the PM too difficult, but OK for the Queen?

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GBM
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« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2021, 06:52:26 am »

Driving home from work yesterday around 5.30pm/6pm, I was privileged to see 6 motorcades driving rapidly up the A30 towards Eden, all well spaced out.
So many bikes, cars and vans in each convoy.  Joe and Jill bringing up as the tail end charlies, complete with USA flags on their vehicle.

Was very impressed with the organisation and sight of them.

Leaving aside the green issue and the cost issue, it's a sight I won't see in person again in my lifetime.

Several people lining the route, didn't see any protest banners, etc amongst them.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2021, 08:26:23 am »

Driving home from work yesterday around 5.30pm/6pm, I was privileged to see 6 motorcades driving rapidly up the A30 towards Eden, all well spaced out.
So many bikes, cars and vans in each convoy.  Joe and Jill bringing up as the tail end charlies, complete with USA flags on their vehicle.

Was very impressed with the organisation and sight of them.

Leaving aside the green issue and the cost issue, it's a sight I won't see in person again in my lifetime.

Several people lining the route, didn't see any protest banners, etc amongst them.

I passed a motorcade returning from taking a college group to Tehidy woods on Thursday lunchtime. It was as you say an impressive site, and I was impressed how everyone conformed and got out of the way.

Later that evening there was people with banners on the bridge I cross over exiting Dobwalls to rejoin the A38. Banners about climate control.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2021, 12:26:23 pm »

I noticed a special train at Plymouth yesterday, Friday 10th at about 1230. An IET (Intercity Express Train) showing Truro and Penzance. A member of staff said it was for the media and it did look like that as they were all spaced out sitting at laptops. I think it was a 9 car. It was temporarily stopped at Plymouth because of a fatality.

I believe that on the 8th and 9th June there was a special 12.45 Paddington to Penzance and on the 10th June an 08.45 Paddington to Penzance special all believed to be IETs. Presumably there will be some return specials next week?
Btw The Royal train has entered Cornwall (from Windsor and Eton Riverside) and is believed to be stabled at Burngullow.

For those who like me like to look at how the specials did:

8 June
5Z31 Stoke Gifford to Paddington (empty stock)
1Z31 Paddington to Penzance (very interesting that these ran via Badminton, and that Bristol in 1:15¾ is doable)
5Z33 Penzance to Stoke Gifford (empty stock)

9 June
5Z31 Stoke Gifford to Paddington (empty stock)
1Z31 Paddington to Penzance (via Badminton)
5Z33 Penzance to Stoke Gifford (empty stock)

10 June
5Z30 Stoke Gifford to Paddington (empty stock)
1Z30 Paddington to Penzance (via Badminton)
5Z32 Penzance to Stoke Gifford (empty stock)

And looking at next week:

14 June
5Z30 0430 Stoke Gifford to Penzance
1Z30 1002 Penzance to Paddington
5Z32 1615 Paddington to Stoke Gifford (this looks like the path of one of the non-running Cardiff trains if ever there was one – that may be the general modus operandi here)
and
5Z31 0621 Stoke Gifford to Penzance
1Z31 1156 Penzance to Paddington
5Z33 1800 Paddington to Stoke Gifford

15 June
5Z91 0718 North Pole to Paddington
3Z91 0745 Paddington to Penzance
3Z92 1301 Penzance to Paddington
5Z92 1832 Paddington to North Pole
(Not sure this is the same thing – it's a 3Z rather than a 1Z, and it's done out of North Pole rather than Stoke Gifford. Also seems to be running on the 18th.)
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« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2021, 03:19:14 pm »

For future events of this type, it would in my view be worth building* a couple of railway vehicles for use of domestic, or visiting VIPs.

With a "boardroom style" layout to permit of meetings, or of taking a meal together. And with much of the furniture removeable after folding it up, in order that the space can be used for a drinks reception.

No need for a complete train, these are arguably better hired from one of the charter operators and are available with first class seating, standard class seating, buffets, kitchens, and luggage vans.
Having one or two vehicles as described to add to a charter set sounds useful.

*By "building" I mean converting from existing vehicles, not new build from the ground up, which would be hugely costly for so few vehicles. If food or drink is to be served, no need for any special facilities, simply place next to an existing catering vehicle.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2021, 03:21:52 pm »

15 June
5Z91 0718 North Pole to Paddington
3Z91 0745 Paddington to Penzance
3Z92 1301 Penzance to Paddington
5Z92 1832 Paddington to North Pole
(Not sure this is the same thing – it's a 3Z rather than a 1Z, and it's done out of North Pole rather than Stoke Gifford. Also seems to be running on the 18th.)

Speculation time ...
Class 3 trains are empty ones on which the running time is important - typically outbound trains headed out to form class 1 or class 2 passenger trains after just a few minutes break.  I suspect this is in the schedule as there's a question mark over what's needed on 15th to get people back after the G7 and that 3Z92 could be changed into 1Z92 with little problem.  But not 1Z92 yet awhile so it can be cancelled very close overnight without flagging up as a cancellation.
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« Reply #187 on: June 12, 2021, 03:43:47 pm »

For future events of this type, it would in my view be worth building* a couple of railway vehicles for use of domestic, or visiting VIPs.

With a "boardroom style" layout to permit of meetings, or of taking a meal together. And with much of the furniture removeable after folding it up, in order that the space can be used for a drinks reception.

No need for a complete train, these are arguably better hired from one of the charter operators and are available with first class seating, standard class seating, buffets, kitchens, and luggage vans.
Having one or two vehicles as described to add to a charter set sounds useful.

*By "building" I mean converting from existing vehicles, not new build from the ground up, which would be hugely costly for so few vehicles. If food or drink is to be served, no need for any special facilities, simply place next to an existing catering vehicle.

If you were to suggest that to any government's security and protection experts they would veto it out of hand. Railways are particularly vulnerable to malicious (and indeed accidental) acts, and in today's world that threat is just too high. Having an armoured train that can plough straight on through anyone who wants to stop it an with or without signals isn't an option now (if it ever was outside war zones).

For G7, the situation is particularly bad, since it attracts a particular kind of paramilitary protester. The choice of a relatively isolated place has made it possible to cordon it off (not possible in a city), and that plus travel restrictions has kept almost all of the foreign battalions away. The demonstrating corrals offer so little scope for mayhem that even any domestic hardcore may have stayed at home. But a railway ... it only takes a handful of people to stop one of those (or worse).
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broadgage
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« Reply #188 on: June 13, 2021, 12:49:36 pm »

Events of this nature do indeed attract protests, some of which can be violent.
A train should still be doable, with proper security precautions such as armed police or troops, and not advertising the timings or the route in advance.
After all the Royal Train was considered safe for Her Majesty, so another special train should be safe enough for the PM and entourage.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #189 on: June 13, 2021, 02:35:10 pm »

Events of this nature do indeed attract protests, some of which can be violent.
A train should still be doable, with proper security precautions such as armed police or troops, and not advertising the timings or the route in advance.
After all the Royal Train was considered safe for Her Majesty, so another special train should be safe enough for the PM and entourage.


..........and like the Royal Train, it would be extremely expensive and hardly ever used.
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Kernowman
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« Reply #190 on: June 13, 2021, 02:45:12 pm »

Events of this nature do indeed attract protests, some of which can be violent.
A train should still be doable, with proper security precautions such as armed police or troops, and not advertising the timings or the route in advance.
After all the Royal Train was considered safe for Her Majesty, so another special train should be safe enough for the PM and entourage.
It took The Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William to St Austell (for the Eden Project). It was 67005 and 67006 topping and tailing 10 carriages, mainly mark 3s. Not sure if it has a buffet car, but it probably has room for some surfboards!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 03:15:53 pm by Kernowman » Logged
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« Reply #191 on: June 13, 2021, 07:15:30 pm »

The 'awkward' mob have now arrived en masse now it's over, using glue to attach themselves to the carriageway in places. Is anyone aware of any Railway system affecting incidents today. The Rail Replacements would have been affected by one of the Glue incidents.
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« Reply #192 on: June 14, 2021, 07:50:09 am »

The 'awkward' mob have now arrived en masse now it's over, using glue to attach themselves to the carriageway in places. Is anyone aware of any Railway system affecting incidents today. The Rail Replacements would have been affected by one of the Glue incidents.
Now all the VIPs have gone all they are going to do is annoy and cause disruption for the locals who by now have probably had enough of all the disruption caused by the G7 summit. Hardly a good way to get people to support your cause.
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #193 on: June 14, 2021, 09:17:56 am »

I agree that it would have been preferable for the PM to take the train rather than to fly.
I suspect that a special train would have been both cheaper and greener than flying.

Condemning the PM to an IET (Intercity Express Train) is perhaps going a bit far, but a Castle HST (High Speed Train) would seem to be suitable.

Other world leaders also set a very poor example in terms if the fuel used by numerous aircraft and road vehicles. Extinction rebellion have protested about this, near the Summit.

Flying in from around the globe in a squadron of planes, some elderly, to tell the plebs they're going to have poorer lives because we have to clean up the atmosphere isn't great optics.

I suspect the Communist Party of China, (they're opening coal fired power stations ad-libitum in China) will have found the whole junket very amusing.  And also striking a chord - the Chinese have no real electoral say in who makes their rules, and now, neither do we.  Nine representatives and their lieutenants in Cornwall setting policy direction, only one of whom I, or any of us, had any theoretical influence (?) in choosing
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #194 on: June 14, 2021, 05:03:20 pm »

I agree that it would have been preferable for the PM to take the train rather than to fly.
I suspect that a special train would have been both cheaper and greener than flying.

Condemning the PM to an IET (Intercity Express Train) is perhaps going a bit far, but a Castle HST (High Speed Train) would seem to be suitable.

Other world leaders also set a very poor example in terms if the fuel used by numerous aircraft and road vehicles. Extinction rebellion have protested about this, near the Summit.

Flying in from around the globe in a squadron of planes, some elderly, to tell the plebs they're going to have poorer lives because we have to clean up the atmosphere isn't great optics.

I suspect the Communist Party of China, (they're opening coal fired power stations ad-libitum in China) will have found the whole junket very amusing.  And also striking a chord - the Chinese have no real electoral say in who makes their rules, and now, neither do we.  Nine representatives and their lieutenants in Cornwall setting policy direction, only one of whom I, or any of us, had any theoretical influence (?) in choosing

Was Greta's yacht not available?
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