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  • TWSW - Rural Connectivity: February 05, 2021
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Author Topic: TravelWatch Southwest - Webinar 4 - Friday 5th February - Rural Connectivity  (Read 402 times)
grahame
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« on: January 18, 2021, 11:11:32 am »

TravelWatch Southwest - Webinar 4 3.30 pm - Friday 5th February 2021 - Rural Connectivity

From 15:30 for about an hour - Fireside chat, Travelwatch Southwest webinar via Zoom. Sign up via EventBrite - details to follow on this thread.  Please contact TWSW secretary or myself for further details; all welcome. Each webinar in the series is independent - just attend those which are of interest to you.
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 06:26:20 pm »

Sign up via EventBrite



Love the picture ... but I can't imagine that quite so many vehicles would be needed at the same time on most rural routes - or are we looking forward to the time when everyone uses public transport, and individual vehicles are few and far between?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 06:48:14 pm by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 10:03:52 pm »

Due to ... well -  my failure ... I wasn't at this afternoon's Webinar; I may be able to get a writeup, but please don't hold your breath.

Edit to add ... I have the background links and the chat (that latter giving a good feeling of the flavour or discussions) - my apologies to speakers and readers for the lack of a summary of the talks for this week.



Background Links

Reversing rural bus decline
https://bususers.org/england/reversing-rural-bus-decline/
https://acre.org.uk/rural-issues/transport.php

Rural Transport in Crisis
https://bettertransport.org.uk/media/05-Dec-2018-report-shows-rural-transport-in-crisis

Government consultation on the future of rural transport
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-transport-rural-strategy-call-for-evidence/future-of-transport-rural-strategy-call-for-evidence
http://www.somersetintelligence.org.uk/rural-transport/
https://www2.uwe.ac.uk/faculties/FET/Research/cts/projects/news/gordonstokes070311.pdf

Rural solutions to enhance social inclusion
https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/newsroom/news/2012/06/project-of-the-week-rural-transport-solutions-to-enhance-social-inclusion-in-remote-areas-of-the-northern-periphery

What is in store for the future of Public Transport
https://www.itpworld.net/news-and-views/2019/whats-in-store-for-the-future-of-rural-public-transport

Community based solutions to rural transport
https://www.wcpp.org.uk/commentary/how-community-based-solutions-can-improve-rural-transport-in-wales/

Review of interventions to improve public transport in rural areas
https://www.wcpp.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/An-evidence-review-of-interventions-to-improve-transport-in-rural-areas.pdf

Transport Deserts
https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/transport-deserts/

Chat

15:09:09 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Welcome everyone https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-transport-rural-strategy-call-for-evidence

15:32:43 From  Richard Kemble  to  Everyone : Drones and autonomous vehicles depend on good mobile and broadband strengths in rural areas.
15:35:28 From  Jacqui - BAVLAP  to  Everyone : We also need to make use of all existing transport, especially the SCHOOL BUSES - they just sit laid up in the middle of the day, WHY can’t they be used for shopping trip in the Rural Areas
15:37:04 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Jacqui you rightly pickup on the need for journeys to have manifold value
15:38:24 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : intergration with public health services in rural area  no link to the NHS
15:39:19 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : These are deeply historical trends - look at the analysis of the Jack Cttee report on rural  bus services ca 1960! Same kind of 'challenges'. Agree though that letting rip the 'free market' in housing has not helped rural communities.
15:39:36 From  John Carr  to  Everyone : Note that the Public Accounts Committee criticised HMG for relaxing the target for 95% coverage of fast broadband to 85% by 2025.
15:41:14 From  Jacqui - BAVLAP  to  Everyone : I think one issue is that those making the decisions don’t use buses
15:41:17 From  Phil Groocock  to  Everyone : These days, school coaches cannot be used to provide ordinary bus services because they are not wheelchair accessible.  Buses that are wheelchair accessible could be used to operate the school contracts but these have fewer seats and most are not fitted with seatbelts.
15:41:21 From  Cllr Loretta Whetlor  to  Everyone : pre COVID we were lucky here in west Somerset because EDF gave us free transport during the hours of their staff being taken on their park and ride  went fromMinehead to Bridgwater. Took well over 1 3/4 hours to get there
15:41:31 From  dixie  to  Everyone : A very good analysis by Catherine/Kate identifying the need for a systemic change in rural transport. As well as widening opportunities for those who are disadvantaged by age, economics, etc, we also need a shift in behaviour change re transport for those who are well off. Single drivers in SUVs for example.
15:41:45 From  GST114288  to  Everyone : in cornwall go-ahead is successfully combining school and public journeys---greatly improving coverage in isolated areas of the county.for example,holsworthy-bodmin moor-bodmin.
15:41:48 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Where would the townies go
15:42:48 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Re @Colin's point on history. A key difference from 1960 is that we now realise the wider costs - including to public funds such as health services - of the assumption that all travel can be done in private cars.
15:43:00 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Wellbeing, toursism, lateral thinking and industries contribute to our ecoomy
15:43:06 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : economy
15:44:28 From  Roma  to  Everyone : From Roma What is the best use of LAs BSOG for rural public transport?


15:46:23 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : rural tax bus i service  what about community safe of unregulated drivers.

15:46:39 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Sorry @Mike, but regulation of taxis includes safeguarding and road safety checks that you might be willing to skip but many others, including most lone women travellers, would not.
15:46:51 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : That  why taxi  are licensed
15:47:24 From  Robert Williams  to  Everyone : I think part of the challenge with school "buses" is the suitability of those vehicles to undertake rural shopper services. Typically they are coaches or double deckers. Also, they don't operate in school holidays which account for 25% of weekdays, so it's not necessarily as cheap as it might look compared to procuring a minibus service to run all year. So, there are cases where it can work, and cases where it doesn't. The local authorities need to coordinate transport as one issue, rather than separate issues that are statutory and non-statutory.
15:47:40 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : problem in rural south Gloucestershire and weca area with driver safety of taxis
15:48:28 From  dixie  to  Everyone : Narrow roads, steep hills and elderly population in West Somerset not well suited to active travel.
15:48:34 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Avon and Somerset police or Gloucestershire police would not support unregulated Taxis .not would the British transport police

15:48:58 From  Philip  Sankey  to  Everyone : We have several different supermarkets visiting Lyme to deliver groceries. where should competition end and co-operation begin?

15:49:19 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : The  technological booseterism of the DfT's call is both predictable and disappointing. Much of the nuance of the GOS Foresight report (Jan 2019) about the uncertainties have been lost. Technology has a role, but mustn't frame the agenda.
15:49:29 From  david.phillips  to  Everyone : "Rural" is heterogenous - there is a considerable difference between deep-rural and towns of 5k+ population - the problems are slightly different and potential solutions considerably so.
15:49:33 From  Nick Hurrell  to  Everyone : The Bridport Renewable Corridor (which we heard from a few weeks ago), is aimed at both connecting rural communities and Bridport/West Bay. It's radical but deserves further consideration
15:50:11 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : patients transport and public transport and community transport work together

15:55:32 From  Jacqui - BAVLAP  to  Everyone : Ive got an electric bike
15:56:16 From  Mike Reddaway  to  Everyone : Many rural bus routes wander around hence take a long time. And there aren't many journeys per week so rural residents use their cars. Make cars electric?
15:56:22 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : @Loretta is right to say discussion of rural transport includes the towns as well as villages, as people's work and social connections link them.
15:57:21 From  Cllr Loretta Whetlor  to  Everyone : Electric cars are great but who can afford one at the moment. unless the government give us all a subsidy no chance !
15:58:09 From  John Scott  to  Everyone : How many drones would be buzzing around our rural lanes and fields to replace all the large delivery vehicles?
15:58:15 From  James White  to  Everyone : Electric cars still have a carbon footprint and some research suggest it is only after 50,000km that the benefits kick in.
15:58:45 From  Mike Reddaway  to  Everyone : A subsidy for electric cars might the only way to meet decarbonisation targets?

15:59:11 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : I think this the consultation @Neil mentioned. https://beta.bathnes.gov.uk/form/transport-delivery-action-plan
15:59:27 From  csymington  to  Everyone : Why not use frequent small "hopper" style electric buses with baggage areas on designated routes that can deviate slightly to respond to advance booking requests to help isolated residents. IF these hopper buses are programmed to stop at supermarkets, surgeries etc parcels/shopping etc can also be collected for delivery, reducing the need for delivery vans making numerous small deliveries and becoming a menace in small villages as well as being unsustainable. Just a thought...
15:59:49 From  alan  to  Everyone : People require public transport to be able to socialise, medical appointments, education , work etc. Car share does not work when you have flexible work time demands.
16:00:47 From  dixie  to  Everyone : I like the hopper buses idea.
16:01:30 From  Cllr Loretta Whetlor  to  Everyone : After COVID we have a problem with the buses i. They will be full due to Butlins so we really do need a better service for all. People use buses not just to go shopping or appointments but also for tourism .
16:02:05 From  Mike Lambden - Bus Archive  to  Everyone : What is being described as hopper bus. Legislation has allowed those for many years but take up has been very small for the sort of reason that John outlined.
16:02:29 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : There is a rather underused railway line through Watchet!
16:03:09 From  Mike Lambden - Bus Archive  to  Everyone : https://lincsbus.info/callconnect/
16:04:07 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Thanks Mike Lamden
16:04:13 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Re @James White's comment on electric cars. The figure is nearer 16000 than 50000. The latter figure is from an extremely dubious source. https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/electric-cars-questions-raised-misleading-ev-report-778113
16:05:08 From  Nick Hurrell  to  Everyone : Running public service trains on the W Somerset line is common sense (and would quicker then the bus) but it hasn't happened yet - why?
16:06:24 From  John Scott  to  Everyone : We need to keep in mind that the transport needs vary according to the different groups in rural areas. There are at least four main groups with different needs: commuters, schools, the retired, and visitors. One size may not fit all.
16:06:49 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Should we be asking for boosted support for bus connecting with trains
16:07:06 From  Richard Kemble  to  Everyone : What happened to the "Total Transport" initiatives of a few years ago??

16:07:25 From  Tony Reese  to  Everyone : Yes, Bryony, but what do we mean by support for connections
16:07:33 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : Yes: but they need to be dedicated connections, like in Switzerland
16:08:12 From  Tony Reese  to  Everyone : Interconnections means reorganising bus and train timetables, as well as space on station forcourts
16:09:05 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : The west Somerset railway owned by Somerset county council should be used for passengers trains not just a steam railway for tourists  first great western railway looked at service on this line but needs government funding.
16:09:27 From  Nick Hurrell  to  Everyone : Catherine . you hit the nail on the head with your comment on lack of joined up thinking cross counties
16:09:54 From  Lucy Travis  to  Everyone : We haven’t thought about rural based commuters or school / college children which aren’t time rich. They need regular bus or train services which run on time so you can get to school or work on time. You can't get an e scooter or a folded electric bike on a bus or train. Also we need to think how we can discourage car use in rural areas. What would encourage a person to get a taxi to then get a bus to work when they could jump in their car to go direct to work.
16:09:56 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Re @Richard's query on Total Transport. Devon's Interim Carbon Plan has an action " Promote Total Transport, integrating various transport services (school transport, public bus services, patient transport etc.) to enable more efficient use of vehicles and reduce dead mileage.". Which suggests it isn't there yet.
16:10:11 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : If we throw carbon budgets into the mix a whole new equation for sustainable services evolves.  Rural miles are long
16:10:24 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : The Exeter central to okehampton line will open very soon to a passengers service Network rail western routes is working on the route  with first group plc for the department for transport
16:10:25 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : Agreed.
16:11:28 From  Mike Lambden - Bus Archive  to  Everyone : Anthony Smith of Transport Focus says that diverting bus services to serve railway stations can be totally against what most bus passengers want as it adds to their journey time.
16:11:43 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : The Bristol ,Bath ,Westbury  Frome, Yeovil ,Dorchester, Weymouth
16:12:02 From  Mike Reddaway  to  Everyone : Yes, getting all agencies, providers, private, public etc to work together is the most difficult problem.
16:12:02 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : is a very important rural  railway
16:12:26 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : Yes: Peninsular and Western Gateway as two separate STBs is ridiculous.
16:12:31 From  Marcus Prouse  to  Everyone : Isn't there a Local Transport Board through the Heart of the South West LEP? could they have a role to play In thinking regionally with funding
16:12:32 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Bristol Bath yeovil Weymouth railway
16:12:38 From  James White  to  Everyone : On the rural miles are long and carbon issue Midlands Connect (which includes many rural areas) work is revealing rural areas are the greatest contributors to carbon emissions and this is where decarbonisation policies will need to focus including reducing the overall need to travel.
16:12:57 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Como UK have some guidance on mobility hubs https://como.org.uk/shared-mobility/mobility-hubs/what/
16:13:19 From  Richard Kemble  to  Everyone : @Kit I gather that the patient transport side is the challenge.
16:13:55 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : 2 Transport Board for south west England Dont work  no public consultation about the boundary by either Board s
16:15:15 From  John Scott  to  Everyone : Why not increase tax on private cars to produce revenue for investment in rural bus services?
16:16:06 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Somerset sit in.the middle   Somerset county council in one Board  and Banes and North Somerset in is in   western  Gateway transport board
16:16:38 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Somerset is in southwest  transport board

16:17:06 From  Marcus Prouse  to  Everyone : thank you for the info David
16:17:44 From  John Scott  to  Everyone : Some vaccination hubs are located in very rural areas!
16:17:46 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Somerset clinical commission group is the problem not Somerset west  or Somerset county council
16:17:49 From  Mike Lambden - Bus Archive  to  Everyone : Why would you want a bus service from the town centre to the racecourse as most people don't live in the centre?
16:18:23 From  Lucy Travis  to  Everyone : First bus are running a special "vaccination" bus double decker bus from Wells to Shepton Mallet cenothath then on to the Bath and west show ground (a vaccination hub). Runs every 30mins 7 days a week plus weekends and weekends.

16:19:25 From  Colin Divall  to  Everyone : The Sub National Transport Boards are in theory a good idea, but the devil is in the detail. I'd love to know the politics behind having two STBs in the SW. At least in the 1960s there was a single Economic Planning Council for the region!
16:19:30 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : mendip district council and Somerset county council has a shuttle bus service from.wells shepton mallet to the Bath and west show ground vaccinations centre connection with 376 bus from wells Glastonbury and street

16:21:18 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : @Peter is right to point to discriminatory effect of assuming everyone has cars. We have disabled members who are articulate adults who want to be able to travel independently, not depending on a family or friend to drive them.
16:21:50 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : How do we think around rural to rural?  Is there an alternative to a car
16:22:32 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Lucy Travis has worked on vaccinations centre bus service s in Somerset Banes North Somerset and Banes and weca on the Somerset catch the bus campaign  Facebook group  please join  and the Dorset catch the bus campaign for Dorset Bournemouth Poole and Christchurch face group please join
16:23:09 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Wiltshire 24 7 Facebook group as well  please join
16:23:16 From  csymington  to  Everyone : This lack of connectivity is precisely what restoring rail connectivity in rural areas is trying to resolve. Integrating small shuttle bus/cycle and pedestrian access with local rail services will help reduce social isolation, improve access for young, elderly and those without cars to shopping, leisure, education and jobs, can enable faster journeys and reduces carbon emissions.
16:24:04 From  Mike Reddaway  to  Everyone : I shall look at the consultation. I live in Exeter but grew up in rural Devon so know both ends of the journey.
16:24:08 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Christopher Irwin(Direct Message) : We will run a workshop Zoom mid next week.
16:24:13 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Devon car ownership figures, to fairly fine detail, are here https://www.devon.gov.uk/factsandfigures/transport/car-ownership/
16:24:24 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : we need rural railway and bus services
16:24:43 From  Lucy Travis  to  Everyone : I have set up a Facebook group for bus campaigners (bringing people together with an interest in buses, bus campaigners, bus users groups or transport user groups with an interest in buses): https://www.facebook.com/groups/931235210634506 Everyone is welcome.
16:25:07 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : the Government is funding railway at 182 million pound a aweek
16:25:28 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : 27 .5 million pounds aweek on bus service
16:25:56 From  James White  to  Everyone : DfT is apparently planning a use public transport campaign.
16:26:09 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : Governments is planning a regional and national bus strategy consultation
16:26:32 From  Bryony Chetwode  to  Everyone : Parish Councils are an relatively untapped resource which has shown some workable mettle in rural areas through lockdown
16:26:56 From  John Moorhouse  to  Everyone : TravelWatch NorthWest will be responding to the consultation. Some very interesting points today.
16:27:01 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : There is a department for transport bus service recovery grant comming through public transport
16:27:37 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : and emergency recovery fund for railway
16:27:45 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Just some examples from those Devon figures of West Devon parishes - households with no car: Gulworthy 4, Buckland Monachorum 150, Lamerton 27, Meavy 18, Walkhampton 21.
16:28:46 From  Lucy Travis  to  Everyone : ~Community transport only carries about 8 people in COVID times. Also community transport only services in Somerset 1 village a week normally. This isn't the solution to public transport to covid vaccination sites.
16:30:06 From  Jacqui - BAVLAP  to  Everyone : Do both -
16:30:29 From  Jacqui - BAVLAP  to  Everyone : Yes please Jacqui
16:30:33 From  Kit (Transition Tavistock)  to  Everyone : Yes, I would like to go to workshop

16:30:52 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : yes bryony chetwode in wood love to attend
16:31:04 From  petertravis  to  Everyone : Peter Travis would like to join the workshop
16:31:07 From  John’s iPad  to  Everyone : yes please John Hassall
16:31:25 From  David Redgewell  to  Everyone : David Redgewell yes please
16:31:55 From  Horace Prickett  to  Everyone : Yes Please Bryony Horace Prickett
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 07:35:16 am by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2021, 07:57:40 am »

From a brief look through chat  for the TWSW rural connectivity seminar 5.2.2021 (chat is above in this thread), here are some of the key issues that were discussed.   Many well recognised and common; big question for me is "how do we take forward solutions towards identified issues?"



Historic trends - thinning out of rural buses

Medical, school, general use of same vehicles / services, and issues (times, standards needed, etc)
Free market issues / bus competition on boundary of town and countryside

Licensing/regulation of taxis and community safety
Lots of rural transport on roads not suitable for it.

Making use of rural rail too
Westbury to Weymouth, Taunton to Minehead, to Okehampron

Bus connections at stations - are they really what passengers want?
Maybe not now - but for the future?
Need to sycnronise timetables for decent connections

Change in behaviour of users - 1 person in SUV to public transport

How carbon friendly really are electric cars?  How affordable?
Rural areas are high use carbon and will need a lot of work to reduce

Deliveries, by drone? Why by competing van not a single delivery service?

Issues with transport to vaccination centres (and where should it run from??)
Post COVID but with distancing still bus capacity issue - Minehead and Butlins

Spit between two transport boards does not work and was not consulted on.

Encouragement to join local bus groups; URLs etc in chat.

Next Seminar - Best Practice - 12th Feb 2021 - http://www.passenger.chat/24544
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