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Author Topic: Trams for Bristol (again) and Bath?  (Read 6930 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2021, 06:27:53 pm »

Only two days later, and it's been value-engineered down to a few extra bus routes already. With bendy buses. Bristol 24/7 reports:

No, TonyK.

The plans as outlined in recent meetings make it clear that a mass transit system, which may be rail-based and may be underground, will take 10 to 15 years to deliver. The rapid transit system (essentially more MetroBus) can be rolled out more quickly. The article you've quoted is talking about the latter, which you will note it refers to as the first phase.

Adam Crowther doesn't help when he refers to this phase as 'mass transit', though; but everyone else finds WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s terminology confusing so why shouldn't he?

Note Crowther's parting shot:

Quote
He said the eventual mass transit system would be overlaid on the rapid bus network.

Ah, sorry, I jumped the gun. Maybe next year, then.
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TonyK
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« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2021, 12:10:29 pm »

More news on the form the mythical Mass Transit Network will take has slipped out in a survey for the redevelopment of Mead Street. Page 2 of the survey shows:

Quote
Guiding principle 2 - Providing better routes for sustainable travel

Prioritising sustainable modes of transport is a key principle.

One option is to create an active travel route via Mead Street, providing a segregated pedestrian and cycle way along its length. This would provide links from Mead Street to Bath Road to enable a convenient link to the proposed new southern access to Temple Meads Station (Southern Gateway) and connect through to an active travel route being considered at Whitehouse Street.

A Mass Transit Network is being considered for Bristol which would provide regular electric, or hydrogen powered bus services via dedicated routes, offering a convenient and sustainable mode of transport across the city.  The network of mass transit routes is not yet determined, but there is a desire that the network serves the proposed Southern Gateway to Temple Meads Station. Given Mead Street’s proximity to the proposed Southern Gateway, this could be a possible route. Before any decisions are made in relation to the Mass Transit proposals community engagement will take place.[/b]


My emphasis. We are getting Son of MetroBust, folks, to build on the massive success of the first tranche. Pre-pandemic and before the guided bit had to be closed, MetroBust was hailed as a big success as passenger numbers had exceeded expectations. Total bus travel was, however, down on the previous year, reversing a steady upward trend. My own pet theory, based on anecdotal evidence, is that MetroBust proved great for the people at the ends, but not along the route. A case in point was in Stapleton, where some local services were withdrawn when the M3 to Keith Emersons Green was introduced. Friends of mine reported walking to the stop in the middle of nowhere, only for buses full of happy escapees from Lyde Green sail gracefully by without stopping. With little alternative, and none at all from the MetroBust stop, some who had commuted by bus for years started going to work by car again.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 01:17:20 pm by Red Squirrel » Logged

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Lee
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« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2021, 12:34:34 pm »

A case in point was in Stapleton, where some local services were withdrawn when the M3 to Keith Emersons Green was introduced.

Does it have a bus fare for the common man?
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2021, 01:27:30 pm »


We are getting Son of MetroBust, folks...


'The beginning of wisdom,' according to Confucious, 'is to call things by their proper name'. Bristol City Council defined MetroBus-style buses as 'rapid transit', and the thing that sits between these and trains as 'mass transit'. Subsequently they have used the terms interchangeably, which is reasonable in that everyone else already did but confusing for anyone who assumed they were adhering to their own definitions.

So who knows what they mean?
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TonyK
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« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2021, 03:40:59 pm »

I don't recall that we did Confucianism at school, although I didn't think we did history, and apparently we did. That explains some of the bruises. I do recall though that Humpty Dumpty said "Words mean what I want them to mean", so I assume that's the way it is done at City Hall.

Bus Rapid Transit started as a solution to the problem of unreliable long bus routes passing through the Centre, and a way to cut emissions. It consisted of a long bus route passing through the centre, two shorter routes starting in the Centre, a couple of new car roads with bus lanes painted on them, and an express route to the airport along a crumbling riverside. For some reason, it didn't entirely captivate the public imagination. BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) became a byword for a lack of imagination, flawed thinking and massive overspending. This needed firm and resolute action, so the name was changed to Metrobust. This radical leap forward didn't cause so much as the slightest ripple of interest amongst bus operators. The original plan envisaged vicious competition between rival operators, with fist-fights breaking out between managers keen to secure the right to pay access charges to run services over the infrastructure, charging a premium fare to pay for it. The reality turned out to be exactly what the rest of us predicted, with First the only operator, no access fees, and day fares slightly cheaper than "normal" buses (ie, the ones without a "M" before the number).

The motive power doesn't really change whether it is mass transit or not. From the time the trams ended until the 1980s, Bristol enjoyed what it didn't realise was a golden age of buses. There were more then than there are now, they just realise it was mass transit. It doesn't much matter what the name is - if it has wheels and looks like a bus, it's a bus.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 07:55:02 pm by TonyK » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2021, 04:19:30 pm »

Drifting off-topic, but looking at the consultation on Bristol's no 2. bus, it seems (as with MetroBus) largely an excuse to use public transport money for pet highway projects and making car use as difficult as possible. the irony is of course that when people do use cars, they will have to travel three times as far because of all the one-way systems. Hey ho!     
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2021, 04:45:00 pm »

Drifting off-topic, but looking at the consultation on Bristol's no 2. bus, it seems (as with MetroBus) largely an excuse to use public transport money for pet highway projects and making car use as difficult as possible. the irony is of course that when people do use cars, they will have to travel three times as far because of all the one-way systems. Hey ho!     

The original MetroBus was at least in part a road-building scheme paid for with public transport money. Rather than making car user 'as difficult as possible', it actually made it rather easier. Kudos to the clever blighter who thought up removing the word 'Road' from the South Bristol Link though!

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Lee
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« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2021, 05:17:11 pm »

Drifting off-topic, but looking at the consultation on Bristol's no 2. bus, it seems (as with MetroBus) largely an excuse to use public transport money for pet highway projects and making car use as difficult as possible. the irony is of course that when people do use cars, they will have to travel three times as far because of all the one-way systems. Hey ho!     

The original MetroBus was at least in part a road-building scheme paid for with public transport money. Rather than making car user 'as difficult as possible', it actually made it rather easier. Kudos to the clever blighter who thought up removing the word 'Road' from the South Bristol Link though!



I have had a look into this, and as a result, I am naming the "clever blighter" in question as Alistair Rice of the North Somerset Council Directorate: Development and Environment Policy Team. It was his January 2010 report here that made the decision to choose the "Red Route" described in the report as "South Bristol Link", over the "Blue Route" described in the report as "A38/A370 Link Road".

I therefore judge that it was at this point that the terminology definitively changed to "South Bristol Link".
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« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2021, 11:46:01 pm »

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Before any decisions are made in relation to the Mass Transit proposals community engagement will take place.
Yeah sure. Roll Eyes Hope they include those such as I who work in the Temple Meads area: it might be a good idea.

As for the consultation on the no.2 bus route I have taken part in this and said, among other things, that:

- the 24hr bus lanes are a daft idea because not only does the no.2 route not operate 24/7 (although I am aware that the 76 is a 24/7 serve through Brentry and Southmead) but you also don't get huge tailbacks on the route after about 7:00/7:30pm. There are enough empty business units on Whiteladies Road already and I think that businesses along there will find it a case of survival of the fittest if these 24hr bus lanes get put in. IMO (in my opinion) bus lanes running at peak times only (say Monday to Friday, 6:30 to 9am inbound and 4pm - 6:30pm outbound) on Whiteladies Road would be better and would not adversely affect trade for the small businesses, especially given the times we are in during which the businesses on Whiteladies Road and elsewhere need all the customers they can get.

- the Roman Road closure on the Downs is a dumb idea because the buses on the number 4 (the 2/2A do not serve that road) will get caught in the congestion on Stoke Road at peak hours with no way out of it.

The 4 is my local route but it does not operate frequently enough to make me use it. And as far as the continuous cycleway idea is concerned my only reply to that is an age-old saying: "you can lead horses to water but you can't make 'em drink it."

Dave
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 12:05:22 am by DaveHarries » Logged
Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2021, 07:42:31 am »

Well said Dave wholeheartedly agree with you on this.
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