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Author Topic: Unusually detailed message on Journeycheck  (Read 717 times)
bobm
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« on: February 24, 2021, 08:11:21 pm »

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Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids

Due to a broken down train between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids the line towards Exeter St David's is blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled, delayed by up to 120 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 22:00 24/02.

Customer Advice
A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train has broken down between Totnes and Newton Abbot, blocking the line towards Newton Abbot. Trains will be able to operate between Totnes and Exeter St Davids once the appropriate ground staff are positioned to guide 'up' direction trains along the 'down' line.
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and London Waterloo in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Nice to have a full explanation but will it be lost on the average passenger?
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2021, 08:13:29 pm »

I doubt the average passenger knows what it means   Grin Thumbs up to Journeycheck for the information.
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2021, 08:48:57 pm »

Quote
Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids

Due to a broken down train between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids the line towards Exeter St David's is blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled, delayed by up to 120 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 22:00 24/02.

Customer Advice
A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train has broken down between Totnes and Newton Abbot, blocking the line towards Newton Abbot. Trains will be able to operate between Totnes and Exeter St Davids once the appropriate ground staff are positioned to guide 'up' direction trains along the 'down' line.
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and London Waterloo in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Nice to have a full explanation but will it be lost on the average passenger?

I doubt the average passenger knows what it means   Grin Thumbs up to Journeycheck for the information.

I was taught "not feature but benefit" in sales training. In other words not "what is wrong" but "what it means to you, the passenger".    Following what I was taught, the first piece of the Customer Advice should not have been included.

However, real life has taught me that - provided you are clear about the benefits and everyone can follow that, many people really like an overview of the features too.   So where trains are "up the Swanee", life has taught me not just to say "trains are being cancelled, revised or delayed by up to 120 minutes" but rather  "trains are being cancelled, revised or delayed by up to 120 minutes because a train has broken down between Newton Abbott and Totnes" or even "trains are being cancelled, revised or delayed by up to 120 minutes because a freight train has broken down between Newton Abbott and Totnes and we are having to get an extra staff member in place to allow trains to run on the second line"

P.S. - the "average passenger" may be a darned sight better informed than we think ... the number of times I have met someone and made assumptions of "just another person" but then in talking to them you discover a real depth and a person with positive qualities far beyond what's seen on the outside.
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2021, 09:02:04 pm »

Another case of the non-public field of text for an incident getting misplaced and published inadvertently methinks!
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2021, 09:07:16 pm »

Another case of the non-public field of text for an incident getting misplaced and published inadvertently methinks!

And none the worse for it happening  Grin
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2021, 09:22:18 pm »

Absolutely, and in many examples it would be useful.   However with more sensitive incidents sometimes the extra detail goes into too much detail if you know what I mean?
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DaveHarries
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2021, 11:10:22 pm »

Quote
Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids

Due to a broken down train between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids the line towards Exeter St David's is blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled, delayed by up to 120 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 22:00 24/02.

Customer Advice
A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train has broken down between Totnes and Newton Abbot, blocking the line towards Newton Abbot. Trains will be able to operate between Totnes and Exeter St Davids once the appropriate ground staff are positioned to guide 'up' direction trains along the 'down' line.
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and London Waterloo in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Nice to have a full explanation but will it be lost on the average passenger?
I got stuck in this chaos. Apologies for the essay but here is a bit of info from my angle.

The freight in question was, according to the platform displays at Totnes, 6C53 (1432 Parkandillack - Exeter Riverside N.Y, normally a Thursdays only working according to the WTT (Working Time-Table) on NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s website) which, I understand from the train manager on 1M83, had problems getting up the gradient near Dainton Tunnel at about 1810hrs. 6C53 was already late having passed Hemerdon 54 late but I think that would have been to make way for passenger trains. An attempt was made to solve the issue at Dainton by putting sand down but this did not work and the freight train was eventually declared a failure.

Meanwhile, being a key worker (vehicle rental sector), I got on 1M83 (1827 Plymouth - Birmingham New Street) as part of my day's work which had seen me on an errand to the Plymouth area and this departed Plymouth on time. We came to a stand at Ivybridge station due to 1A96 (1615 Penzance - London Paddington) being at a stand ahead of us which was itself at a stand because of 2E22 (1751 Plymouth - Exeter St. Davids) already occupying Platform 2 at Totnes and that could not leave due to the problems with 6C53. Eventually 2E22 terminated at Totnes and was turned back to Plymouth as 5E22. Once that had been done (I was still at Ivybridge by this time) 1A96 was allowed into Totnes station where it, too, was terminated. This was turned back as 5C90 into the opposing platform and then returned south as 1Z90 (1958 Totnes - Penzance) replacing 1C90 which had terminated at Exeter St. Davids. Once 1A96 got into Totnes then the train I was on was allowed to move and we got away from Ivybridge (31 minutes down, according to RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) but we were there longer than that: I photo'd 5E22 coming through Ivybridge at 1931 while grabbing some fresh air on the platform so I reckon we sat at Ivybridge for about 55 minutes). Once 5C90 had gone back to Plymouth then 1M83 was routed into Totnes. We arrived in Totnes at 1950hrs (58 minutes late) where the platform had quite a number of passengers on: we were told the train was going no further so off we got.

1M83 turned into 5M83 which departed at 2015. Replacement transport was laid on by road (1 coach and a single-deck bus) which departed Totnes at 2030hrs but not before an IET (Intercity Express Train) in the guise of 1A39 (1744 Penzance - London Paddington, via. Bristol Temple Meads) drew in. Oddly this train did not drop its passengers and neither were the passengers from 1A96 put on. The single-deck bus took the passengers for, I think, Newton Abbot but the coach, which had the passengers from 2E22, 1A96 and 1M83 on board, ran non-stop to Exeter St. Davids where it arrived, by my timings, at 2115. On arrival the passengers such as myself who were continuing northbound (my destination was Bristol TM(resolve)) were sent to Platform 6 for an onward rail connection. This arrived in the form of the IET working 1A39: a check on RTT shows that 1A39 had left Totnes 36 late at 2051hrs, clearly wrong line as the freight was still stuck, and had called at Newton Abbot! 1A39 left Exeter SD at 2128 and arrived in Bristol TM 43 minutes late at 2232. Anyone going north towards Birmingham - and there were at least 2 people - were told at Exeter SD that arrangements would be made for them at Bristol if no more trains were running to their destination.

A check on OpenTrainTimes while I was on 1A39 showed a light loco behind the failed 6C53. It showed on displays as 0Z99 and presumably acted as a banker to give the freight a push: RTT shows that 6C53 finally got to Exeter Riverside NY at 2220, arriving 253 minutes late.

Timings above either from my own notes - I wrote my timings on the job sheet for my employer - or OpenTrainTimes / RTT. If I have any criticism it would be relating to the coach trip (not sure if I should elaborate here) but come to think of it I think perhaps that might be unfair considering that the road transport had been summoned at such short notice.

I won't put links to the train timings here but they will be on RTT for the next few days for anyone interested.

Dave
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 06:25:21 pm by DaveHarries » Logged
REVUpminster
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2021, 06:41:57 am »

Forty odd years ago the Underground changed it's policy from writing "Incident" on a white board to what it was ie Person under a train, signal failure, etc.

The ticket office used to receive tannoy messages from the head controllers at 55 Broadway in those days which we passed on to the station staff.

Cannot remember how we used to display messages about the various IRA bomb attacks and the Moorgate train crash and the fire at Kings Cross.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2021, 07:49:01 am »

Thank you DaveHarries for your detailed reply.
Very interesting, and would have given you cause for concern as how your journey would (or not) develop.
I wonder if there was any 'joined up thinking' going on as it would appear we have Cross Country control room/FGW (First Great Western) control room/NotworkFail control room/DBS» (Deutsch Bahn Schenker - UK (United Kingdom) website) (?) control room.
Do they all have an overall controller, or would they all act independently, hence odd passenger transfers to Newton and Exeter.

As stated on this forum, there is a big problem in getting road transport mobilised at such short notice, but I believe FWG are now having a contract placed for immediate rail replacement transport assistance.
Even that means that/those companies have to be notified.  Call the drivers and depots.  Drivers to go to the depot and prepare their trusty steeds.
Then drive to the collection station.
So there could be a delay of several hours for a more remote location!
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2021, 04:01:32 pm »

When things go wrong, information for passengers is essential for good business etiquette and damage limitation.

So it's good that there was a good source of information, but why oh why do Railway industry companies have to slag each other off.

Why is the Customer Advice
"A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train......"
when
"A failed Train........" says the same thing without damage to the reputation of DB,

Of course back in the early 1970s a failed train wouldn't cause this sort of problem as following trains would be controlled and brought up behind the failure and because of something as simple as BUFFERS and drawgear the following train would give a push.

Of course the gradients on the South Devon Main Line make it a hard line to work for trains, but a killer for heavy freight services, many freight trains are split into two portions when worked over the Newton Abbot to Plymouth line, this is an excellent example of why the LSWR (London South Western Railway) Exeter to Plymouth line via Tavistock should reopen.
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2021, 04:08:59 pm »

When things go wrong, information for passengers is essential for good business etiquette and damage limitation.

So it's good that there was a good source of information, but why oh why do Railway industry companies have to slag each other off.

Why is the Customer Advice
"A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train......"
when
"A failed Train........" says the same thing without damage to the reputation of DB,

Which is why we, or at least I, was suggesting it was information that wasn't supposed to be included in the public feed of the incident, but was added by mistake.
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2021, 05:18:12 pm »

When things go wrong, information for passengers is essential for good business etiquette and damage limitation.

So it's good that there was a good source of information, but why oh why do Railway industry companies have to slag each other off.

Why is the Customer Advice
"A DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Cargo freight train......"
when
"A failed Train........" says the same thing without damage to the reputation of DB,

Of course back in the early 1970s a failed train wouldn't cause this sort of problem as following trains would be controlled and brought up behind the failure and because of something as simple as BUFFERS and drawgear the following train would give a push.

Of course the gradients on the South Devon Main Line make it a hard line to work for trains, but a killer for heavy freight services, many freight trains are split into two portions when worked over the Newton Abbot to Plymouth line, this is an excellent example of why the LSWR (London South Western Railway) Exeter to Plymouth line via Tavistock should reopen.

Why not name the company?  f their reputation is tarnished it might prompt them to invest to run more reliable rolling stock?
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smokey
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2021, 06:34:08 pm »

So a freight train has failed, but is it a loco fault, or a wagon fault?, (dragging brakes, Hot axle Box etc).

Might not be anything to do with the Loco company.
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ellendune
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2021, 06:37:43 pm »

So a freight train has failed, but is it a loco fault, or a wagon fault?, (dragging brakes, Hot axle Box etc).

Might not be anything to do with the Loco company.

If there are so many people responsible to ensure a reliable train then is anyone responsible?  Perhaps that is the problem.
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DaveHarries
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2021, 07:05:52 pm »

Thank you DaveHarries for your detailed reply.
Very interesting, and would have given you cause for concern as how your journey would (or not) develop.
Yes indeed. Seeing as 1A39 eventually ran through on the wrong line I guess they could have put the passengers on that which would have been absolutely fine for social distancing. However I guess there was no certainty as to whether 1A39 would itself get turned back: had they done that I would have been high and dry as I wouldn't have had anywhere to go and the Falcon (the coach service between Plymouth and Bristol) had ceased for the night by that time. My folks don't drive at night either so summoning anyone would have been impossible.

So a freight train has failed, but is it a loco fault, or a wagon fault?, (dragging brakes, Hot axle Box etc).
No idea but, as I said in my reply, they tried putting sand on the line so it sounds like a loss of traction (ie. wheels slipping on the rails perhaps?)

Dave
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