"Just a minute (or two)" - notes from TravelWatch SouthWest Webinar / chat on 19th Feb 2021, as logged by myself. Please send me a personal message on the forum if there's anything you feel could be clarified within this text, or follow up on the post. I have done my best, but not the world's best note taker these days!
Chris Irwin (chair). Introduced the meeting thanking everyone for attending the series of session that this one concluded, and for their inputs. After a break, another series will follow - not too long in the future, but no specific dates yet. 17 (?) people have asked to speak for a minute or two on their own issues, and concerns, and to inform, and importantly this will help inform/confirm to
TWSW» as to what is key for our members.
Paul Johnson. (1) Integrating rail and bus information on
CIS▸ screens is important where rail replacement buses are running. This has always been put in "too difficult" box by the rail industry when requested, but it's not/no longer just a local issue we have raised here and should be addressed. (2) For your information, we [TransWilts] (shared with Severnside, Worcsestershire, and Gloucstershire
CRPs▸ ) are planning to employ an education officer to promote healthy and sustainable travel via a program. Looking for early youth involvement. Initial funding CRD via
CRN‡ then from a
GWR▸ education fund from which money can be bid from.
Nick Farthing. Bus / Rail / Ferry ticket to be launched this summer for the Solent area - Salisbury / Winchester / Burlesdon train area, buses in the Southamton area and to Waterside / New Forest, Hythe Ferry and Hythe Pier railway. I heard "All day" but chat clarified as all day at weekends, off peak on weekdays. Hythe ferry is a return trip on the ticket, rest of service are rover to use multple times if you like
Mike Lambden. We have a big bus archive, but on paper and can't access during Covid. Lessons from the past are to be learned - things that ceased and ideas not taken up may indeed come back now. It used to be that bus services were widesperead but thin and people made their journeys at the time(s) the bus ran. Now they expect an all day service. Better mobility has lead to the death of the local centre. Avoid fare systems that are too complex. And people really do NOT like to buy travel ahead of time.
Barclay Davies. Looking after bus users / bus compliance - now laregly online. Challenge (sorry, Barclay - can't read my own note). No evidence that Covid is / has been transmitted on buses. Need for new headstart / restart (some slight oprimism that there will be promotion help?) . Cashless far from an ideal payment solution - some don't have plastic and don't have access to it. And mobile phones don't always get a rural signal to check your ticket.
Robert / Reading buses - followed this up on chair invite to confirm that although there was some move to cashless journeys which were 50/50 with cash journeys pre-covid, it was only to about 60/40. Privacy of data concerns raised (by other speakers) have not been a problem and "the information is of no interest - we are just looking for payment". But trust might be an issue.
Jacqui from BAVLAP. Look at using school minibuses that are parked up all day for community transport services. Deliveries have cut emissions. Need government schemes to help. Social and pleasure journeys out at the moment. Also need to look at car sharing. Problems with electic chargers in rural area, people don't have off road parking from where to charge, so perhaps base cars / charge at village and community halls?
David Regdewell. Has been following legal provision for disabled access and ensuring provision does not get overlooked / pulled back during covid times. David also notes the need for govt. funding for at least 18 months for public transport and that farebox will not cover for 2 years. Predicts (educated thought) that things will not go back to commercial services as before.
Tim Dumper. Exmouth, struggling, loss of passengers and challenge is to get them back. In support of electric cargo bikes. Disappearing and lack of interchanges.
Roma. Now in the North West but learning and informing in both directions. Confirmes that issues in the North West mirror issues in the South West. Lots to learn and share which she is doing working with her old ALRUG area.
Chair asked local govt and rail reps what makes a good user group to work with
Andrew Ardley. A group that listens as well as campaigning. Taking a look at the longer term and working together
David Phillips. Agree with Andrew Ardley and looks at the facts / issues. Look very much at joined up solutions.
Edit - David writes to me: What this should have said (what I intended to say... don't remember what I delivered!) was that I was recalling a stakeholder meeting:
Mark Hopwood said faster trains attracted more passengers (true)
Nina Howe said a more important factor was having reliable trains (also true)
What neither said, but I wished to add, was that for most people, the critical factor was that trains didn't go where they wished to travel.This was, of course, a support for "joined-up solutions" - the thing that we, collectively in
UK▸ , seem to find so hard to do. Original text:
David contrasted Mark Hopwood promotion of faster trains v Nina Howe saying people are calling for reliable trains, and how there is an element of contrast between those two positions. (Q: from chair) Have we the right structure. (A:) Boundaries are awkward, and whether or not the structure is right, we don't have the capacity to make full use of all the interfacing and working with opportunities with our neighbours. Especially the case for a landlocked county like Wiltshire with borders on all sides!Nigel Ewens. 60% have no driveway so electric car charge problem. Suggest village charge point. Only 9 years to end of sales of petrol vehicles. UK needs twice the generation capacity it has. Bus is not profitable and needs political debate. Councils strapped for cash. Village electric bus? Demand responsive? Electric bike surprisingly flexible, joining up. Revitalise village? Joined up thinking vital.
Dick Daniel. Bristol and Bath trams. Linking system is best. Trams proven to get through traffic where buses do not; people tend to keep out of the way. Overhead may not be needed on all sensitive or awkward sections. Once installed, cheap to run. People like them and will use them.
Colin Divall. Stories / case studies are important to reach people ... lead to a discussion (CI and
CD▸ ) of someone who was already knowldgable struggling to book a trip from Amsterdam to Florence by train. Then discovered Interrail which was a solution. Story also involved mainland Europe train operators who each run (and protect) their own booking systems and don't open to 3rd parties such as Trainline.
Bryony Chetwode. Post buses were transforming in rural areas for younger people; a freedom for Mum who could see that daughter was with a known operator / person to the main interchange. Also (for Bryony) trigged a youthful enthusiasm / interest in buses. Passenger + mail in one vehicle - stengthens financial case for both.
Andy B. Transport discussion with community group raise a fury in Bristol - mention of
WECA» , the Council, Safer Streets and the feedback is that these organisations are seen as working for the white middle class against others.
Mike Reddaway. As
RUG» - frustration with no timetables at stations any longer, though they have been put up for two engineering replaced Sundays. Also issues with alternate train removal which removed trains for long periods at certain stations. GWR responded well and quickly to correct the issue. Still working to sort out some issues created by the December 2019 timetable change (connections, etc)
James Harkins. Trams - Edinburgh (his background) held up as "shambles" - except that it's carrying 7.5 million passengers a year and now everyone else wants a line and extensions under way. Equate it to childbirth - huge pain and swearing "never again" but yet look at how many people have multiple children.
Graham Ellis. See summary at
http://www.passenger.chat/24686 - three slided 1. What would we like to see looking forward? 2. Strategy 3. Tactics. Largely reflext much of the above.
Chair thanks all / meeting closed. Many thanks for inputs and participation; very useful inputs.
Chat - key comments
Me to Everyone (3:30 pm)
Notes tomorrow at http”//www.passenger.chat/24545
Kit (Transition Tavistock) to Everyone (3:44 pm)
Mike & others - are there stats about trends in payment mode by age group / location?
Mike Lambden to Everyone (3:52 pm)
Picking up Barclay's point about using PT I was taken about the other day to hear the Shadow Health Secretary state that he thought public transport users should now be using enhanced face masks to travel which would be another barrier.
Kit (Transition Tavistock) to Everyone (3:52 pm)
Re electric cars - with the ranges now available there is no need to charge the car daily. We never expected to refill with petrol within 100yds of home.
Mike Lambden to Everyone (3:54 pm)
TfL» have not taken cash for bus services for several years.
Colin Divall to Everyone (3:55 pm)
The data security/privacy issues get sidelined as well.
James Harkins to Everyone (3:55 pm)
Tallin and other cities have their urban and suburban public transport free in the form of resident cards
david.phillips to Everyone (3:55 pm)
Agree with Colin on data/privacy
I'd prefer to use a card of some form - not to rely totally on one very complex device (mobile phone)
Kit (Transition Tavistock) to Everyone (3:56 pm)
For an good introduction to considerations in using electric cars see
https://www.zap-map.com/electric-vehicles/ev-buying-guide/David Redgewell to Everyone (3:57 pm)
the sum.of money to run public transport system at present is £27.5 a week for buses £182 million a week for railway£24 .5 million in England
The department for transport funding
Nick Farthing to Everyone (3:58 pm)
Great idea about the cargo bikes - check out Zedify who use cargo bikes - google their name for details
David Redgewell to Everyone (3:58 pm)
coaches get no money from the department for transport
David Redgewell to Everyone (3:59 pm)
weca mayoral transport authority and North Somerset council are operating 80 bus services under Covid 19 bus operators grant s from the department for transport.
Dick Daniel to Everyone (4:00 pm)
In Bath there is a commercial cargo bike delivery service for businesses called Three Bags Full and the Library of Things use one for delivery's and collections.
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:00 pm)
bus recovery partnership is with locial authorities is the new way forward
david.phillips to Everyone (4:01 pm)
What Andrew says would apply also to local authorities
Bryony Chetwode to Everyone (4:01 pm)
There is some very positive partnership work being done in Dundee
Nick Farthing to Everyone (4:01 pm)
For cargo bikes check out Pedal and Post Oxford as well
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:02 pm)
The department for transport are issue guidance to the bus and rail operators and providing the Funds
Nick Hurrell to Everyone (4:02 pm)
Post Covid - it will be more important than ever that User Groups work with Operators. SERUG have re-aligned our objectives to help with passenger recovery
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:04 pm)
The department for transport have again issued instructions via minister to health Authorities clinical commission group on access to vaccinations centre
south west transport board
western gateway transport board
Colin Divall to Everyone (4:04 pm)
Humour - and good (as in inspiring) storytelling as well.
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:04 pm)
we one South west of England Transport board
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:05 pm)
nice if the carry out a public consultation on transport boards and Authorities
Jacqui - BAVLAP Beaminster & Villages Area Partnership to Everyone (4:06 pm)
As I said Village Halls could be ‘Community Hubs”
Bryony Chetwode to Everyone (4:06 pm)
Perhaps we should be encouraged to pay for charging with used Public transport vouchers as the main percentage currency
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:07 pm)
Bristol clean air zone go to cabinet on 25 th February and the Government on the 26th February 2021 starts October 2021
Bath clean air zone start 15 th march 2021 go live
david.phillips to Everyone (4:08 pm)
That is an interesting idea Bryony!
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:09 pm)
25 th online mass transit system wednar by the west of England combined authority and North Somerset council. details eventbrite
Bryony Chetwode to Everyone (4:09 pm)
I expect free buses for the behavioural shift required is not affordable by straightforward reckoning..?
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:09 pm)
mass transit webnar 25th February 2021
Lucy Travis to Everyone (4:10 pm)
Can't seeing hail on demand working for people who commuter or school children as they need reliable bus services at specific times to get them to work or school. Could work for people who have more time on their hands e.g OAP's but then that service would be in essence be community transport.
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:10 pm)
last date for beeching reopening bid 4 th of march 2021 new lines new station s
Lucy Travis to Everyone (4:11 pm)
One of my favourite graphic showing the contrast in terms of road space between cars, buses and other forms of transport.
https://buffer-pictures.s3.amazonaws.com/7af3276743b0decf6c3142ffd256a080.18ff2a81570d24aea900a9588222bece.giDavid Redgewell to Everyone (4:12 pm)
stagecoach south west and user group are opposing the The closure of Torquay fleet street to bus service s
by the town forum traders proposal to the council
GST114288 to Everyone (4:13 pm)
nobody has mentioned a development of postbuses---plus passengers being carried on supermarket delivery vans!
James Harkins to Everyone (4:13 pm)
Manchester Metrolink before pandemic carried 67.6 million passengers with only 120 vehicles. 27% were former car journeys - not expensive if you spread capita over 60 years, four times the life of a bus
Colin Divall to Everyone (4:14 pm)
If you want to get really radical - and I think we have to in the climate emergency -try John Sutton's ideas about personal rations of mobility miles, which can be traded - in his book Gridlock (2015) Ticks the social equity box as well as environmental...
David Redgewell to Everyone (4:14 pm)
Department for transport looking at DRt
Kit (Transition Tavistock) to Everyone (4:16 pm)
Didn't Ben Elton also do a novel called Gridlock?
Colin Divall to Everyone (4:16 pm)
He did!
Nick Farthing to Everyone (4:16 pm)
In my experience of "selling" projects to everyone, the best way is to see if those you are "negotiating" with have some benefit from your scheme as well
Dick Daniel to Everyone (4:16 pm)
For lots more information on trams please see
https://bathtrams.ukIan Harrison to Everyone (4:20 pm)
Agree with Nick that projects need to work for all parties if they are going to be successful. For example, services have to generate enough income to meet their costs.
Nigel Ewens to Everyone (4:20 pm)
I lived in Bristol in late 1970's & 17 years ago was invited to advise on rail based proposals as part of transport solution - politics got in the way, the old Midland route Bristol to Bath (with link north) was lost when new Bypass was permitted to be built on part of the trackbed - typical short term thinking. Today a tram could be put in place using rest of old route + some new route to get around blockage. Would enable tramway & trailway to exist together --- needs funding & political will
Dick Daniel to Everyone (4:23 pm)
The Manchester Metrolink is a tram system.
Bryony Chetwode to Everyone (4:24 pm)
I will put the papers sent by Andy Burkitt under the Webinar on our Website
Andy Burkitt to Everyone (4:25 pm)
TfGB Papers & Manifesto & next project - I will pass to Bryony & Christopher
Nigel Ewens to Everyone (4:26 pm)
The rail industry -- pre Covid-19 -- uses a 'clearing house' type system to apportion revenues when passenger journeys are across multiple Franchise operators - which can include 'Tube' trips too. Technology advances should help this concept develop to serve us better
Andy Burkitt to Everyone (4:27 pm)
We also work with James Harkins who has been so helpful.
Edit - correction / clarification from one of the speakers
