Low Traffic Neighbourhoods

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Video from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

'More divisive than Brexit' - The battle over LTNs^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods were introduced to tackle increasing traffic on minor roads, but now they are dividing communities.

One in 20 Londoners now live in one and they are being rolled out across the country to dozens of towns and cities.

[CyclingSid]

"Discussion" has been almost endless on cycling sites. More drivers versus cyclists, but a bit like the Kensington cycle lane; (non-local) motorists don't want them local residents do want them. As most of it was inner London I didn't bore you all with it.

[grahame]

"Discussion" has been almost endless on cycling sites. More drivers versus cyclists, but a bit like the Kensington cycle lane; (non-local) motorists don't want them local residents do want them. As most of it was inner London I didn't bore you all with it.

Appreciated it's not been "in area" ... looks like it could be in the future. Let's see if this thread runs or splutters out quickly.

Just around the corner from us we have - not an Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)), but a 20 m.p.h. set of streets intended to keep traffic low. To a degree, I suspect they work.   They would also add 2 minutes each way to a bus service through those streets, and make an hourly service that passes through difficult to propose.  4 minutes in the hour added to the "clock face" diagram and that 7% of extra time would irritate through passengers and and mean cutting off something at the fare end of the route.


Edit:VickiS - Clarifying Acronyms

[Electric train]

The Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead had proposed a scheme on Shoppenhangers Road in Maidenhead, its a main town road that runs along the back of the station (plat 1) and then South.
It was planned to have a "gate" for buses; the scheme got branded "the busgate scandal" locally after a lot anti scheme publicity in social and local media also a petition to the local council it was dropped.

I am all in favour of low traffic neighbourhoods but investment needs to be done to other infrastructure to support it 

[CyclingSid]

A very quick and imprecise search on The Ranty Highwayman on the subject of LTNs^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood).
https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/search?q=LTN
He is a highways (civil) engineer who cycles, normally writes an honest and unbiased blog on the subjects he covers in his weekly blog. I have not read all these.

And something from Peter Walker in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2020/oct/22/despite-a-loud-opposing-minority-low-traffic-neighbourhoods-are-increasingly-popular

[Red Squirrel]

Just around the corner from us we have - not an Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)), but a 20 m.p.h. set of streets intended to keep traffic low. To a degree, I suspect they work.   They would also add 2 minutes each way to a bus service through those streets, and make an hourly service that passes through difficult to propose.  4 minutes in the hour added to the "clock face" diagram and that 7% of extra time would irritate through passengers and and mean cutting off something at the fare end of the route.

20 mph or 30 km/h speed limits seem to be becoming the norm for built-up areas throughout Europe. I don't think there's much linkage between these and LTN's. Most of Bristol is now covered by a 20 mph limit, and you'd hardly call the city a low-traffic neighbourhood. Some major routes have higher speed limits, but not all: there's a 6.5 km stretch of the A38, for example, that is subject to the 20 mph limit.

As to whether 30 km/h limits slow traffic down: that's a moot point. The speed of traffic is to a large extent regulated by traffic signals; rushing from one set of lights just increases your wait time. This video, put out by Bristol City Council when the limits were being rolled out, makes the point - perhaps slightly preachingly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW_fyuybDYw

[broadgage]

My cynical view is that most people support low traffic neighbourhoods, provided that some flexibility is shown with themselves being exempted.
"Less traffic is good in general, but I HAVE to drive MY children to school"
"It should not apply to ME I live here"

On public safety grounds I am opposed in general to physically blocking roads as the work of the emergency services is thereby delayed. Physical barriers also prevent traffic taking an alternative route if the "approved" road for through traffic is closed due to any emergency.
I support reduced speed limits, enforced by fines. These fines should be modest for the first offence to avoid unduly penalising a single mistake. Subsequent offences should be more severely punished.
Perhaps £50 for the first offence, then £100, then £200. 3 points on licence for more than 3 offences.

[Red Squirrel]

On public safety grounds I am opposed in general to physically blocking roads as the work of the emergency services is thereby delayed.

Everyone is opposed to delaying emergency services. That's why they design LTN^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)'s and point closures very carefully to make sure this doesn't happen. It's a tired Culture Wars trope, usually dragged out along with the one about disabled people not being able to get to the shops any more.

[CyclingSid]

My cynical view is that most people support low traffic neighbourhoods, provided that some flexibility is shown with themselves being exempted.
"Less traffic is good in general, but I HAVE to drive MY children to school"
"It should not apply to ME I live here"

Applies to most things affecting motorists; speeding, parking etc. I am in favour of it unless it affects me.

physically blocking roads as the work of the emergency services is thereby delayed

Part of the consultation requirements are to consult the emergency services.

[CyclingSid]

Video from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)▸

Plenty of response to BBC item above: https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-17-march-2021-281779

[Bmblbzzz]

As to whether 30 km/h limits slow traffic down: that's a moot point. The speed of traffic is to a large extent regulated by traffic signals; rushing from one set of lights just increases your wait time. This video, put out by Bristol City Council when the limits were being rolled out, makes the point - perhaps slightly preachingly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW_fyuybDYw

I think we need to distinguish between journey times and moving speeds. IME^▸ (in my experience) the 20mph limits have in general reduced moving vehicle speeds. For instance, heading into town by bike on the A38 I can generally roll along with the traffic at 20-ish mph (helps that it's slightly downhill... ). As for journey times, these are as you say mostly dependent on length of time spent stationary due to traffic lights, congested junctions, people parking in front of you or already parked in stupid places (and this is almost as true for cycling as for driving).

[CyclingSid]

Some not impressed with BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) report:

https://road.cc/content/news/peer-bbc-ltn-report-perpetuated-falsehoods-281845

[Richard Fairhurst]

Appreciated it's not been "in area" ... looks like it could be in the future. Let's see if this thread runs or splutters out quickly.

There's an "in area" example at present - Oxford. A few are being trialled in east Oxford at present. Generally the locals seem quite receptive, but there is a very loud anti group. Red Squirrel's summary of this as "a tired Culture Wars trope" is bang on.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the trial period is up, but I note with some interest that even the incumbent party in Oxfordshire plopped an election leaflet through our door today saying "we're campaigning for more 20mph zones!". Given the hassle we had trying to get a 20mph limit in Charlbury then I can only applaud their belated conversion...

[ChrisB]

Given the hassle we had trying to get a 20mph limit in Charlbury then I can only applaud their belated conversion...

If that was a while ago, the County were against them, hence the hassle - but they've changed their minds & there is even some grant funding to assist these days!

However, the police have stated that they won't enforce the lower limit, wherever introduced.

[Red Squirrel]

However, the police have stated that they won't enforce the lower limit, wherever introduced.

'The Police' is not a national organisation, and different constabularies will have different priorities.

Avon and Somerset Police enforce speed limits including the 20mph and are one of four constabularies to pilot the 20mph speed awareness course: www.ttc-uk.com/police-referred-courses/speed-awareness-course-20mph/

Source: bristol20mph.co.uk