Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum [home] and [about]
Current travel advice (from 29.3.2021)
Forum in and beyond Coronavirus
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 16:55 12 Apr 2021
- DJ Tiiny: No action over radio presenter who charged £200 to play songs
- What's the roadmap for lifting lockdown?
* France moves to ban short-haul domestic flights
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - You can stay away (but limits)
tomorrow - Tuesday Club - ONLINE
14/04/21 - Bus Back Better - ONLINE
19/04/21 - Option 247 BBB ONLINE
Random Image
Train Running Polls Abbreviation page Stn Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 12, 2021, 04:56:20 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[124] The Duke of Edinburgh - statement from GWR
[44] Spot the line, compare the service (2 of 3)
[44] Patterns of returning passengers?
[41] Railway bridges struck by road vehicles - merged topic, ongoin...
[38] A careful re-opening from 29th March 2021
[34] Railway Hotel [Southend] pens letter to punters after closure
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: What might have been - 1975 suggestions /  (Read 806 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 32979



View Profile WWW Email
« on: March 25, 2021, 11:37:55 am »

Map and accompanying text sets the scene well.  Not sure how officials the map is, but the format is familiar with other official ones from around the time.


Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Witham Bobby
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 227



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2021, 12:36:34 pm »

I remember these ideas being widely discussed on BR (British Rail(ways)) when I worked for the outfit.  The degree of support within some sections of the management for retrenchment was a huge shock to me.

In the Westbury Area, where we were working hard every day to shift the Mendips towards London and elsewhere, and keep a fairly comprhensive service of fasts and local trains going, this was all so demoralising.  Thank goodness these ideas, and those of the Serpell Report, which came later but had as one of it's options virtually what this map shows, (with some exceptions), were not taken forward
Logged
RichardB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 774


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2021, 12:47:23 pm »

The map is an adaptation of the maps in the Beeching Report.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8565


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2021, 12:56:35 pm »

The map is an adaptation of the maps in the Beeching Report.

Interesting to see how things might change if a similar level of closures were required now.  In terms of staying open, I bet Oxford to Birmingham and Manchester to Sheffield would get preference over Chester to Holyhead.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Jamsdad
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 112


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2021, 09:26:04 pm »

One does wonder to what extent Holyhead was a political inclusion.
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6980

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2021, 09:40:25 pm »

One does wonder to what extent Holyhead was a political inclusion.

Doubly ironic when you consider the political position it finds itself today, at the gates of the rail industry's "new dawn"
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
RichardB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 774


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2021, 09:43:59 pm »

The map is an adaptation of the maps in the Beeching Report.

Interesting to see how things might change if a similar level of closures were required now.  In terms of staying open, I bet Oxford to Birmingham and Manchester to Sheffield would get preference over Chester to Holyhead.

Don't forget that this map was put together by a campaigning group.  It had no status.  Very few closures after 75, thankfully.  Long may that remain the case.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3840


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2021, 10:36:11 pm »

Don't forget that this map was put together by a campaigning group.  It had no status.  Very few closures after 75, thankfully.  Long may that remain the case.

Yes but it has remarkable similarity to the Serpel Report Map.

Some notable ones closed after 1975 though like March Spalding. And there were plenty of near misses like Settle and Carlisle! Also much rationalisation (removal of capacity - single tracking and 'simplified' junctions). 
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6980

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2021, 11:15:03 pm »

The map is an adaptation of the maps in the Beeching Report.

Interesting to see how things might change if a similar level of closures were required now.  In terms of staying open, I bet Oxford to Birmingham and Manchester to Sheffield would get preference over Chester to Holyhead.

Don't forget that this map was put together by a campaigning group.  It had no status.  Very few closures after 75, thankfully.  Long may that remain the case.

Whilst I appreciate RichardB's view, and agree with the overall sentiment, speaking as a veteran now of several closure battles, I have worked with some of the most wonderful, talented, knowledgeable and committed people I have ever met on them, and their efforts in both stopping the closures and securing the future by subsequent building up the passenger numbers have had a huge impact on keeping the map as full as it has been. I would certainly include Richard himself in that with his sterling continuing efforts on the Devon and Cornwall routes.

In that respect, the rail network is fortunate that it has always known who its true friends are, and has been able to count on them to stick by it through thick and thin.

If only we were all so lucky in our day to day lives.
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
RichardB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 774


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2021, 10:52:08 am »

Don't forget that this map was put together by a campaigning group.  It had no status.  Very few closures after 75, thankfully.  Long may that remain the case.

Yes but it has remarkable similarity to the Serpel Report Map.

Some notable ones closed after 1975 though like March Spalding. And there were plenty of near misses like Settle and Carlisle! Also much rationalisation (removal of capacity - single tracking and 'simplified' junctions). 

Don't get me wrong, there certainly was a constituency for big rail cuts as we saw a few years later with the Serpell Report.  Thankfully it was largely fought off in the 70s and Sir Peter Parker and the BRB(resolve) saw off Serpell.  Settle/Carlisle was indeed a very close run thing.  Not an awful lot else though if you look back.  Rationalisation - another story entirely.  Thankfully much has been put back in more recent times.
Logged
RichardB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 774


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2021, 11:01:20 am »

I thoroughly recommend Chris Austin and Richard Faulkner's book on the battle to save lines in the 70s and 80s.  "Holding the Line" - both Chris and Richard (now Lord Faulkner of course) were closely involved in BR (British Rail(ways)).  Their other book, on rail policy, "Disconnected" is really worth reading too.

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/product/holding-the-line-how-britains-railways-were-saved/
https://rail-books.co.uk/products/holding-the-line-how-britains-railways-were-saved-9780860936473
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780860936640/Disconnected-Broken-Links-Britains-Rail-0860936643/plp

Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 32979



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2021, 11:05:29 am »

Interesing to see closure of all lines and the stations at places like Yeovil, Ely, Shrewsbury, Worcester and, yes, Westbury. Swansea and Plymouth both become the terminii of branches from the Bristol area, and Oxford the terminus of a branch from Didcot. Bournemouth and Salisbury also become branch terminii of lines from Basingstoke.  On the east coast, Darlington and Newcastle become just intermediate stations, as (on the west coast) do Preston and Carlisle. But Tunbridge Wells to Eridge is retained.

On rationalisation - like Beeching closures - some especially around terminus stations and facilities probably made sense with trains able to arrive and depart frequently from less (or one!) platform.  Perhaps less so all the singling and changes at junction stations which accountants may have thought made sense, overlooking the necessary destruction of all round connections as train  move from calling in parallel to in series.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 973



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2021, 11:33:34 am »

Terry Gourvish produced two volumes on the history of British Railways. The first covers British Railways 1948-73, the second British Rail from 1974 to 1997. They were official histories with access to original documents. Very detailed but give a fascinating account of the changes.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page