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Author Topic: Question: Where did the locomotive hauled Network SouthEast services run to?  (Read 3508 times)
Reading General
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« on: March 29, 2021, 06:26:15 pm »

As above. Those services from London Paddington in the late 80’s early 90’s (the rave period) that had 50’s then 47’s with rakes of Network SouthEast coaches. Im assuming Oxford was an often one but Newbury? Did the locos run around the train at Newbury or continue to elsewhere? Did they make it to Westbury pulling Network SouthEast trains?
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onthecushions
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2021, 06:45:10 pm »


I remember catching the 1000 Reading - Paddington (0935 from Newbury), Mark 2c's, hauled one day by 50 046 "Ajax" with 47 541 "The Queen Mother"

They really lifted up their skirts and were standing in Paddington at 1026.

And then we had turbos...

OTC
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TonyN
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 06:50:51 pm »

Ran to Banbury as well. I think there where 2 trains in the Evening 1 via Oxford and 1 via High Wychombe but stand to be corrected by those with extensive timetable collections.
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TonyN
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 10:01:56 pm »

Not the most reliable transport towards the end.
One evening while spending a week on a Network rover I arrived at Paddington to find a 47 had failed and another had been dispatched from Old Oak. We left a bit late with the 2 47s on the front only for the replacment to expire at Reading gas works. An 08 hauled us into Reading where a third 47 was attached to haul the train and 2 failed 47s to Oxford where the train terminated.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 10:12:42 pm by TonyN » Logged
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 10:39:14 pm »

That’s funny, I don’t remember seeing that one on JourneyCheck!  Wink
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rower40
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2021, 07:55:15 am »

Class 86s used to pull rakes of coaches from Liverpool Street to Cambridge, where the 86 was swapped for a 47 for the onward journey to King's Lynn.
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rogerpatenall
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2021, 11:58:09 am »

Class 50s, 47s, and 33s used to run Waterloo to Exeter with NSE (Network South East) trains and then continue beyond to Paignton and even Penzance although the NSE jurisdiction went only as far as Whimple or Feniton. Not sure what the revenue split was.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2021, 12:10:35 pm »

I just finished my first spell of commuting just (two months) before the re-organisation and re-branding. Based on my memories of that time, a substantial proportion of the Oxford to Paddington peak services, a number of Twyford to Paddington services (which I think ran empty onto Reading) and Newbury or Bedwyn services were locomotive hauled, and I think continued to be until the arrival of the Turbos, with old-style DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) filling in on off-peak, shorter and branch line services.

I commuted from Tilehurst, and my "normal" morning train was loco-hauled with Mark 1 corridor stock, but occasional Mark 2s (much more comfortable in my view!). If I got up early, there was the luxury of an early HST (High Speed Train) service that ran non-stop after Tilehurst. I remember a collective audible groan from Platform 4 at Tilehurst one morning when a class 31 arrived about 10 minutes late at the head of the train.
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2021, 02:53:18 pm »

For a few years, Cotswold line services were provided, in the main, by 1st gen DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit), that connected (after a fashion) with Class 50 or Class 47 loco hauled fasts at Oxford, run by NSE (Network South East).  I'm thinking late 1980s / early 1990s.  Huge contrast between rattly old dogbox DMU and the relative comfort of MkII coaching stock.  The NSE accommodation was usually a rake of 10 MkIs or MkII c/ds, or a mixture.  The MkIs by this time were well past their prime.  Held together by force of habit alone, I always used to think.  And yet 30+ years on, many are still alive and well, and living on a heritage line somewhere
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didcotdean
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2021, 04:07:32 pm »

The Class 50 or Class 47 loco-hauled services did do turnarounds at Westbury, most often in peak time.

Widening it out there was the Bournemouth to Weymouth push-pull operation with Class 33 coupled to a 4TC. Such a combination was also used on Reading to Basingstoke on occasion.
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grahame
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2021, 04:25:25 pm »

Widening again ... I thought of the Night Ferry, but that ceased in 1980 and NSE (Network South East) came in 1982.  Also thought that there were locomotive hauled (top 'n tail) trains out of Paddington right until 18th May 2019  Grin
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eightf48544
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2021, 05:27:35 pm »

A number of Twyford to Paddington services (which I think ran empty onto Reading)

I asked a NSE (Network South East) Station Inpsector why they ran empty to Reading and went back ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) to Pad. He explained they ran round in the Up side goods loops so they weren't blocking platforms in the peak at Reading, remember this wasa the old station with only 4 through platfroms.  Probably quite uneconomical.

Similarly the Newbury's I think ran to Westbury to run round not sure whther ECS of in service. NSE ended at Bedwyn.
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Reading General
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2021, 06:59:37 pm »

Interesting stuff, thanks for the replies. The reason I’m intrigued is if these dragged services ran to places without accommodation for running round the train, what did they do instead? I think a loco could run round at Newbury because both through platforms are on loops off the mainline but that would mean a quick turnaround to avoid blocking platforms. I just don’t recall any loco hauled train waiting at Newbury in those days but I could be wrong. Bedwyn obviously has its reversing siding but I’m guessing any loco dragged service would have to run to Westbury to run round, seems a very bizarre way of avoiding extra services for Pewsey and Westbury. Oxford and I think Banbury both have accommodation for trains to turn and wait.

We’re the twyford terminators the same situation as today? Advertised as twyford but actually ended at Reading to avoid a longer journey for some passengers? Radley and Ealing Broadway play a similar role.
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rower40
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2021, 07:16:37 pm »

If there were a spare loco (remember, such things existed in the '70s and '80s!) it could wait in the reversing siding at Bedwyn until the next terminating train arrived in the Down platform.  Then:
Loco 1 from siding to Up platform to get out of the way
Loco 2 draws terminating train from Down platform to Siding, uncouple
Loco 1 from Up platform to siding, couple to London end of stock.
Loco 1 takes train into Up platform ready for return to London.

Then loco 2 from the terminating train remains in the siding, to repeat the process for the next train.

I dunno if Bedwyn ever hosted moves such as this, but the signals exist for it to occur.  Similar loco-release sidings were still in the Liverpool Street layout when it was resignalled in 1989 (but they've been taken out since.)
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bobm
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2021, 07:56:13 pm »

Interesting stuff, thanks for the replies. The reason I’m intrigued is if these dragged services ran to places without accommodation for running round the train, what did they do instead? I think a loco could run round at Newbury because both through platforms are on loops off the mainline but that would mean a quick turnaround to avoid blocking platforms. I just don’t recall any loco hauled train waiting at Newbury in those days but I could be wrong. Bedwyn obviously has its reversing siding but I’m guessing any loco dragged service would have to run to Westbury to run round, seems a very bizarre way of avoiding extra services for Pewsey and Westbury. Oxford and I think Banbury both have accommodation for trains to turn and wait.

We’re the twyford terminators the same situation as today? Advertised as twyford but actually ended at Reading to avoid a longer journey for some passengers? Radley and Ealing Broadway play a similar role.

I suspect it was before NSE (Network South East) but I remember when I got hold of my first working timetable there were some Twyford terminators which ran empty to the former carriage sidings at Malago Vale just west of Bristol Temple Meads.
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