Real Time Trains with GWR allocations

[whole diary]

[bradshaw]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has become the 11th TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to give details of the stock allocation

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G60345/2021-11-12/detailed#allox_id=0

[bobm]

Shame they didn't have it at the time of the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).  Always seemed a long walk to the front to get the leading powercar for my Railmiles entry.

[Timmer]

Brilliant! Been patiently waiting for this to happen.

[stuving]

I wondered when this first appeared how dynamic the information would be. Essentially, are the allocations taken from the day's train plan once before service starts, and the only alteration during the day is to delete them train by train? Or is this fed from a database used during the day to drive the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) graphics and text about train presentation? Further, in that case is it updated by operations when a change gets made on the ground?

Now someone may be able to answer that for the CIS displays alone just be having watched them: do they update when a train is swapped? And the same can now be done for the RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) graphic, both in itself and by comparison with the CIS.

Direction of travel is perhaps not handled ideally in RTT (nor in the CISs, perhaps). There is no fundamental reason to show trains as moving towards the left or the right; it's a convention. The choice for RTT and for CISs is that trains go to leftwards; you read a graphic like words, starting on the left. Obviously that's the convention that belongs to English text, and since the graphics are surrounded by English text it makes sense. But I suspect some people will not twig that instantly.

In the CIS, some trains have a pointy nose at the front of each unit, some don't. AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See) the ones with pointy noses represent trains that actually have pointy tails too. DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) and EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) with unpointy ends are shown with front and back looking the same. That's not exactly logical, is it? RTT shows trains as symmetrical, just as in real life; hence the scope for confusion.

And then a few GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains are shown in RTT with a pointer (triangle in a circle), and that does show which way it is going. It starts at the left, but it's a live link and if you click on it it jumps to the right and the carriage labels swap over too. So it now shows the train as going to the right, with the pointer to indicate that. Now that's kind of clever, though one disadvantage is that each swap is an extra page view. So if you click the "back one page" arrow, it goes back one swap and you need extra clicks to get back to the station page view.

The other oddity is that only a few trains are shown with this extra feature. All the ones I can see now are Cheltenham services (but not all of those). Is this being tried out - and if so, why Cheltenham? Similarly, does anyone know why some why some of the CIS train graphics alternate between letters and symbols, and some just show symbols? I mean, as a programming task it's harder to make it do that than to always do the same thing.

[bobm]

I wondered when this first appeared how dynamic the information would be. Essentially, are the allocations taken from the day's train plan once before service starts, and the only alteration during the day is to delete them train by train? Or is this fed from a database used during the day to drive the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) graphics and text about train presentation? Further, in that case is it updated by operations when a change gets made on the ground?.

On the evidence of three set swaps this morning, it does appear to be updated as the day goes on.

[PrestburyRoad]

The other oddity is that only a few trains are shown with this extra feature. All the ones I can see now are Cheltenham services (but not all of those). Is this being tried out - and if so, why Cheltenham?

I have a theory which could explain this.  All the ordinary services between Paddington/Swindon and Cheltenham are scheduled to reverse at Gloucester.  Whereas the race-day specials between Paddington and Cheltenham bypass Gloucester and don't reverse; there are several of these on 12 and 13 November.  So maybe the extra feature of the arrow is only included when a service is scheduled to reverse en route.

[stuving]

I wondered when this first appeared how dynamic the information would be. Essentially, are the allocations taken from the day's train plan once before service starts, and the only alteration during the day is to delete them train by train? Or is this fed from a database used during the day to drive the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) graphics and text about train presentation? Further, in that case is it updated by operations when a change gets made on the ground?.

On the evidence of three set swaps this morning, it does appear to be updated as the day goes on.

In fact there is an FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) page for this "Know Your Train" feature, and it includes this:

All operators: Changes in train formation or allocation may be delayed by up to two hours due to a delay in upstream systems.

Of course how good the updating is at source is another matter. And no FAQ about direction of travel or reversals ...

[IndustryInsider]

And no FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) about direction of travel or reversals ...

The guy who runs RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) is pretty active over on Railforums, so it might be worth asking the question there?

[TaplowGreen]

Shares in manufacturers of binoculars, notebooks and thermos flasks have gone through the floor! 

[stuving]

The other oddity is that only a few trains are shown with this extra feature. All the ones I can see now are Cheltenham services (but not all of those). Is this being tried out - and if so, why Cheltenham?

I have a theory which could explain this.  All the ordinary services between Paddington/Swindon and Cheltenham are scheduled to reverse at Gloucester.  Whereas the race-day specials between Paddington and Cheltenham bypass Gloucester and don't reverse; there are several of these on 12 and 13 November.  So maybe the extra feature of the arrow is only included when a service is scheduled to reverse en route.

That may be more or less it. Allegedly, the train is shown on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) the way round it is when you look - i.e. matching where its current position on the route is shown as. However, in that case the pointer/icon/arrow points left for that condition, and right for left still being the front but before or after its reversal. That's hardly intuitive, is it? And are there services with two reversals?