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Author Topic: Graduated driving licenses??  (Read 1524 times)
grahame
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2021, 01:35:55 am »


Its the under 25's that need to have speed limiters fitted, and a limit on horse power
I have had similar thoughts in the past but would do things a touch differently ...

To some extent, isn't the insurance industry doing some of the limitation economically by pricing high-powered cars out of the reach of groups more likely to have accidents? And I suspect engine capacity becomes a poor or even archaic means of measuring as the petrol or diesel engined vehicle is replaces by something else.
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broadgage
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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2021, 02:19:43 am »


I have had similar thoughts in the past but would do things a touch differently and have it so that the maximum engine size you can own on your car depends on how you behave on the road. If you behave well then it goes up every, say 3 years. So, for example, for someone who gets a licence at the age of 18:

Cat 1: 1.4L engine, unmodified.
Cat 2: 1.6L engine
Cat 3: 1.8L engine
Cat 4: 2.0L engine or above.

You would not be able to go up to something more powerful for a minimum 3 year period. Misbehaving by, say, getting more than a certain number of points in a 3 year period, results in going down 1 category for minor offences but worse offences, such as D.U.I, can drop more than 1 category.

Dave

As engine size is becoming a bit outmoded,
Class 0 maximum speed 25 MPH. no licence required. Minimum age 14.
Class 1, maximum speed 30 MPH. for new licence holders. Min age 17.
Class 2, maximum speed 40 mph, for nearly new licence holders. Min age 19.
Class 3, maximum speed  60 mph. Experienced drivers only. Min age 21.
Class 4,  maximum speed  70 mph, experienced drivers over age of 25 only.

Drop back one or more classes in case of wrong doing, as described in an earlier post.
Only classes 3 and 4 to be allowed on motorways.
Classes 3 and 4 would require re-testing of older drivers so as to ensure that they are still safe to drive. In case of SLIGHT health issues, older drivers could be restricted to class 1 or class 2. More serious health issues would mean class 0 only.

In exceptional cases, the age limits could be relaxed but only after passing an "enhanced" and very thorough practical and theory test.
Any two adjacent classes could be the same actual vehicle, but with different and tamper proof speed limiters.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2021, 07:07:54 am »


I have had similar thoughts in the past but would do things a touch differently and have it so that the maximum engine size you can own on your car depends on how you behave on the road. If you behave well then it goes up every, say 3 years. So, for example, for someone who gets a licence at the age of 18:

Cat 1: 1.4L engine, unmodified.
Cat 2: 1.6L engine
Cat 3: 1.8L engine
Cat 4: 2.0L engine or above.

You would not be able to go up to something more powerful for a minimum 3 year period. Misbehaving by, say, getting more than a certain number of points in a 3 year period, results in going down 1 category for minor offences but worse offences, such as D.U.I, can drop more than 1 category.

Dave

As engine size is becoming a bit outmoded,
Class 0 maximum speed 25 MPH. no licence required. Minimum age 14.
Class 1, maximum speed 30 MPH. for new licence holders. Min age 17.
Class 2, maximum speed 40 mph, for nearly new licence holders. Min age 19.
Class 3, maximum speed  60 mph. Experienced drivers only. Min age 21.
Class 4,  maximum speed  70 mph, experienced drivers over age of 25 only.

Drop back one or more classes in case of wrong doing, as described in an earlier post.
Only classes 3 and 4 to be allowed on motorways.
Classes 3 and 4 would require re-testing of older drivers so as to ensure that they are still safe to drive. In case of SLIGHT health issues, older drivers could be restricted to class 1 or class 2. More serious health issues would mean class 0 only.

In exceptional cases, the age limits could be relaxed but only after passing an "enhanced" and very thorough practical and theory test.
Any two adjacent classes could be the same actual vehicle, but with different and tamper proof speed limiters.

 Wink

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broadgage
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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2021, 07:21:30 am »

Surely my proposal has the merit of sufficient complexity to preserve civil service jobs ?
And the devolved nations of the UK (United Kingdom) could adopt similar regulations but with slight differences to ages and speed limits.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2021, 09:59:18 am »

Surely my proposal has the merit of sufficient complexity to preserve civil service jobs ?
And the devolved nations of the UK (United Kingdom) could adopt similar regulations but with slight differences to ages and speed limits.

There are far too many civil servants already.

Are you Sir Humphrey Appleby in disguise?
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Marlburian
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2021, 10:49:10 am »

I come late to this discussion, but just to say that I find that I'm limiting the distance of journeys more and more. I'm not even keen on driving out to locations that I used to get to on my 120-miles cycle rides of my youth.

There are situations that I avoid, such as joining motorways from slip roads or driving on narrowish roads at night - even people younger than I find that some modern car-headlights are too bright. I gather that the latest test includes parking on the "other" side of the road and then resuming one's journey, which is a manoeuvre I might find a little challenging.

Just possibly I've done one "silly thing" in the past two or three years when I was turning right at a familiar mini-roundabout and an oncoming car failed to recognise my right-of-way. No impact, just some horn-blaring, but later I reflected as to whether I had been indicating - something that I'm usually very conscientious about.

In contrast I've noticed several very dangerous actions by younger motorists (not to mention the dangerous and anti-social parking by people seeking to exercise at countryside locations).
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TonyK
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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2021, 10:33:49 pm »

I disagree with the view that driving should be "all or nothing"  and consider that a small lightweight vehicle of limited speed should be allowed to persons denied a licence.
There has to be a line drawn somwhere.

But what exactly should we allow ? without a driving licence.

Walking, obviously.
Pedal cycle, no restriction at present.
Electricaly assisted cycle, allowed at present.
Mobility scooter, of course.
Horse, either riden or pulling a vehicle, not that popular but allowed.

2 seater car of very limited speed and weight, not permitted at present but in my view should be allowed.
Such vehicles should be strictly limited in speed and weight, and be as simple to operate as possible.

Broadgage approved specification.
Limited empty weight, limited gross weight.
Max speed 25 or 28 miles an hour.
Automatic parking brake, is applied when the "ignition" is turned off. User can not forget to apply parking brake.
Marker lights automatic, cant be turned off when vehicle in use.
Reverse gear limited to 3 MPH, safer if selected by mistake.
"Tortoise mode" when battery is low.
Electric power, charges from any standard socket outlet, input current limited to 10 amps. Double insulated, no earth required or permitted. Suplied with 2 core charging cable.

The UK (United Kingdom) civil service would like to over complicate this and should be kept in check.

If the UK civil service didn't say it, someone would look at how it would work on real roads, and see how dangerous it is. For a start, 25 mph on a moped can prove fatal to an unfortunate pedestrian, meaning that we are no better off than we would be by letting old people drive cars. You would have to ban them from all roads with a speed limit of 50mph or more, much as slow vehicles are prohibited on motorways.


I have had similar thoughts in the past but would do things a touch differently and have it so that the maximum engine size you can own on your car depends on how you behave on the road. If you behave well then it goes up every, say 3 years. So, for example, for someone who gets a licence at the age of 18:

Cat 1: 1.4L engine, unmodified.
Cat 2: 1.6L engine
Cat 3: 1.8L engine
Cat 4: 2.0L engine or above.

You would not be able to go up to something more powerful for a minimum 3 year period. Misbehaving by, say, getting more than a certain number of points in a 3 year period, results in going down 1 category for minor offences but worse offences, such as D.U.I, can drop more than 1 category.

Dave

As engine size is becoming a bit outmoded,
Class 0 maximum speed 25 MPH. no licence required. Minimum age 14.
Class 1, maximum speed 30 MPH. for new licence holders. Min age 17.
Class 2, maximum speed 40 mph, for nearly new licence holders. Min age 19.
Class 3, maximum speed  60 mph. Experienced drivers only. Min age 21.
Class 4,  maximum speed  70 mph, experienced drivers over age of 25 only.

Drop back one or more classes in case of wrong doing, as described in an earlier post.
Only classes 3 and 4 to be allowed on motorways.
Classes 3 and 4 would require re-testing of older drivers so as to ensure that they are still safe to drive. In case of SLIGHT health issues, older drivers could be restricted to class 1 or class 2. More serious health issues would mean class 0 only.

In exceptional cases, the age limits could be relaxed but only after passing an "enhanced" and very thorough practical and theory test.
Any two adjacent classes could be the same actual vehicle, but with different and tamper proof speed limiters.

We enter the realms of bureaucratic logjam here. 14-year-olds driving anything frightens me, without thinking what roads near schools would look like. The cars would be useful to anyone disqualified from driving - if no licence is required, how would sanctions be applied when they are badly driven? The rest of the system would need considerable expansion of DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) to keep track of the switches of licence level, and the courts to interpret all of this, and enforce the regulations.

Our existing driving legislation is tougher than in many countries, and strikes a balance between liberty and responsibility. I just needs to be enforced, and ultimately, technology will do a lot of the hard work in that respect.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 10:48:20 pm by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2021, 11:16:58 pm »

I have a full driving linence, 7.5 ton, trailers etc, never used any of them, no way I could drive our tail lift van round Bournemouth area an some of the gravel driveways in the New Forest..
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TonyK
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« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2021, 09:17:03 am »

I have a full driving linence, 7.5 ton, trailers etc, never used any of them, no way I could drive our tail lift van round Bournemouth area an some of the gravel driveways in the New Forest..


And that's another kettle of fish. I last towed a trailer (a caravan in fact) about 30 years ago, and wouldn't say I did a particularly good job of it. Safe enough, but reversing proved a bit tricky, having previously only reversed a trailer with an army Land Rover in the mid-1970s. I am permitted to tow a combination of vehicle and trailer weighing 12,000kg, despite last driving a 10,000 truck in 1978, but don't worry, I am not going to do it again. Anyone qualifying for a licence after 1997 would not enjoy the same freedom, but the trend on regulation of driving larger vehicles has seen some relaxation of late. The minimum age for a HGV licence was reduced from 21 to 18 a few years ago. This was not because of scientific evidence showing that younger drivers had become safer, but to try to fill a gap in numbers as older drivers were leaving the job.
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