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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 60102 times)
Lee
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« Reply #150 on: May 09, 2021, 02:27:15 pm »

At last...a sensible, potentially workable suggestion!

Thank you.

I will point out that I edited my original post while you were commenting / not sure how easily the stored 153s could be turned on, and that was NOT what you were commenting on.   RichardB probably not thrilled at the idea of 3 x 153 on St Ives, 4 x 153 on Falmouth, and a couple on either Newquay or Looe. 

Still better than no trains though, if the worst case scenario comes to pass. The key thing with the Cornish Branch Lines is to ensure that appropriate capacity is both provided and ramped up to the high summer peak, particularly if the much anticipated bumper staycation crowds materialise and there are little or no through trains to help take the edge off. As long as Richard and his excellent team get that, I am sure they can make it work.

In overall terms though, it seems pretty clear from comment so far that we are all holding our breath to see how long the Hitachi trains are out of action for.
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« Reply #151 on: May 09, 2021, 03:17:48 pm »

Silly question ... I know they're not easy to couple and uncouple within the sets, but is there any possibility of making up some more good ones by switching a few carriages around?   Sure, chances are they they, too, will need attention in time but to my logic if there are five totally good, there's probably quite a few more with good carriages to mix and match. 

Yes. In theory, and subject to limitations. The requirement stated:
Quote
TS1977 It must be possible to add Intermediate IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) Vehicles to an IEP Unit subject to the IEP Unit still being no greater than the maximum length identified in TS223.

TS1979 It must be possible to remove Intermediate IEP Vehicles from an IEP Unit from any intermediate position subject to the Intermediate IEP Vehicles being removed being of the  correct Functional Vehicle Type and the IEP Unit remaining at least the minimum length.

TS1980 The design of the IEP Units must ensure the time to add or remove Intermediate IEP Vehicle is minimised and is in any event no greater than 8 hours.

TS1589 With regards to IEP Unit reconfiguration it must be possible to reconfigure software and control systems within 15 minutes when Intermediate IEP Vehicles have been added, removed or replaced.

Obviously TS1979 doesn't make much sense. But swapping vehicles of the same subtype between units to keep them running is certainly possible. It may even have been the reason for that bit of the requirement.

Note that subtypes are pretty specific. A 5-car has five different subtypes. In a 9-car, there are two MES2s but the rest are all different. In some cases the difference may be just internal, so a train with those swapped ought to still run OK - again, that's in theory.
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bobm
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« Reply #152 on: May 09, 2021, 03:23:03 pm »

Sources within control claim:

XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) will run Bristol to Swindon shuttles.
West Country services will utilise 2+4 HSTs (High Speed Train) up to Reading or possibly into Paddington.
There will only be 10 IET (Intercity Express Train) sets available until at least Wednesday

A number of Bristol to Swindon shuttles from XC have now appeared on Real Time Trains for tomorrow (Monday 10th).  Also includes a couple running from Plymouth and Paignton.
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grahame
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« Reply #153 on: May 09, 2021, 03:25:51 pm »

A number of Bristol to Swindon shuttles from XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) have now appeared on Real Time Trains for tomorrow (Monday 10th).  Also includes a couple running from Plymouth and Paignton.

Sensible.

Will the accept GroupSave  Grin ...
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« Reply #154 on: May 09, 2021, 04:01:24 pm »

LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) reactivating the Class 91 and Mark IVs it has had stored for service from Tuesday, rather than the planned June 7.

https://twitter.com/richard_rail/status/1391402866863116289?s=21
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« Reply #155 on: May 09, 2021, 04:30:17 pm »

GWR (Great Western Railway) "Do not travel message" on the website now officially extended to Monday.
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« Reply #156 on: May 09, 2021, 05:46:13 pm »

GWR (Great Western Railway) "Do not travel message" on the website now officially extended to Monday.

Though the most prominent sections on the website still refer to the various special offers and other adverts.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #157 on: May 09, 2021, 06:52:19 pm »


Details of XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Swindon Bristol shuttle now an their website
https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/5004/mon-10may21-swibri-public.pdf
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stuving
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« Reply #158 on: May 09, 2021, 07:13:25 pm »

if you're really observant, you may have spotted that the close-up of the crack from last week shows a different shaped bolster from the one in the picture I posted yesterday. That's because the failures last week were all on intermediate vehicles, whereas the one in yesterday's photo clearly isn't. I think that's what determines the difference, rather than some other factor - going by some of Alamy's pictures of GWR (Great Western Railway) 800s (which of course I can't snip a detailed bit out of). The ones on end vehicles are a few centimetres deeper at the end the yaw damper bracket bolts onto, though not at the jacking point (which is just as well, really).

These deeper bolsters do seem to have more metal in the area that cracked, though it's hard to say if that's relevant without a better grasp of its shape in three dimensions.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 10:10:29 pm by stuving » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #159 on: May 09, 2021, 08:26:34 pm »

Quote
Dear Graham
 
I promised to keep you updated on the situation with our long distance trains.  Hitachi investigations continue and they are working hard to put remedial plans in place.  For now however, it is clear that we will need to operate without the vast majority of our Intercity Express Trains tomorrow.
 
Our advice therefore remains not to travel on our long distance routes.  Refunds can be claimed through our website www.gwr.com, or tickets can be used for travel on services later this week or at the weekend.
 
Local, branch and regional services are unaffected.
 
We are working on options that will help us to operate a limited long distance timetable.  It will be much reduced, but we are looking at every option to see what can be done to keep customers moving.
 
This includes looking at trains that might be available and can be moved from other parts of the country, including Charter trains, using buses for some journeys, agreeing ticket acceptance on other train services and making the best use of our other fleets including extending the use of our Thames Valley electric fleet to Swindon.
 
Details of the revised timetable will be entered into journey planners by Network Rail and should be in place from midnight tonight, we will also provide updates on our website www.gwr.com  We have brought more staff into stations and onto our social media platforms to help with advice and we will do our best to keep everyone informed.
 
We are very grateful for the messages of support for our teams as they work to put new arrangements in place.  It will be challenging and it is likely to mean that those trains that are in service are busy.
 
As soon as we have more news from Hitachi on when the IETs (Intercity Express Train) will be back in service we will update you.
 
Best wishes
 
Mark
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« Reply #160 on: May 09, 2021, 08:36:40 pm »

All public statements or press releases  still seem to be concentrating on the need "to check trains as quickly as possible in order that services may resume" or other wording that implies the same thing.

No public mention of the need for REPAIRS or any suggestion that this could be time consuming.

Checks on the GWR (Great Western Railway) fleet have now shown an almost 100% failure rate.

Yesterday=10 units available
Today=5 units available.
Tomorrow= reportedly 3 units available.
With no repairs yet planned that suggests zero availability within a couple more days.

Extra rolling  stock ? no word on this AFAIK (as far as I know).
"Disruption could continue until Thursday" seems to be the message, no hint of "into next year" which I consider probable, or "for several years" which I consider to be possible.

EDIT TO ADD (Automatic Dropping Device) the above press release does mention "remedial works" but with no hint that these could be protracted.
And it also says that the "great majority of the fleet will not be available tomorrow" which is true, but does sort of imply that it might get get better the day after tomorrow.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #161 on: May 09, 2021, 08:50:21 pm »

EDIT TO ADD (Automatic Dropping Device) the above press release does mention "remedial works" but with no hint that these could be protracted.

And it also says that the "great majority of the fleet will not be available tomorrow" which is true, but does sort of imply that it might get get better the day after tomorrow.

I suspect the coming few days will make it clearer.   Bearing in mind that this hadn't even started when any 9-to-5, Monday-to-Friday types who may be involved were last at work.

I have update the "sticky" thread at http://www.passenger.chat/24974 ... and that's the one that Facebook points at.  I will be trying to keep it up to date with "what's happening tomorrow".
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« Reply #162 on: May 09, 2021, 09:07:37 pm »

From the Department for Transport - news story today.

Quote
Government calls on industry for action to resolve rail disruption

government requests Hitachi set out a comprehensive safety inspection plan, and longer-term repair strategy for damaged Class 800 fleet

rail industry asked to deliver a rolling stock strategy to provide additional capacity on network, and a rail replacement schedule

passengers warned disruption expected to continue for some time


The government has asked the rail industry to urgently set out a comprehensive plan to resolve prolonged disruption following the discovery of cracks in Class 800 Series Hitachi trains.

The vast majority of GWR (Great Western Railway)’s fleet and a significant number of LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) and TransPennine Express trains have been taken off the network to undergo a full and rigorous inspection, after checks of the Hitachi fleet early on Saturday (8 May 2021) morning first identified cracks on part of the chassis of some trains.

To combat the expected continued delays, Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris has requested a comprehensive plan from Hitachi to identify the extent of the cracking and whether carriages can still run safely with them.

To support this, Hitachi will also be expected to set out a comprehensive inspection regime guaranteeing that safety is prioritised, building on the work that is already underway.

The independent safety regulator, the Office of Rail and Road (ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)), will be closely involved in overseeing this work, providing confidence to staff and passengers, while also helping to ensure any issues are rapidly resolved.

The rail industry has also been asked to set out a plan for how it will manage capacity, by moving rolling stock and proposing where alternative trains can be sourced. These will be brought into service as safely and quickly as possible.

The industry has also been asked to deliver a clear rail replacement schedule, including additional bus and coach services that will be in place to help alleviate disruption.

Rail Minister Chris Heaton Harris said:

Today (9 May 2021) I have directed the rail industry to urgently set out a comprehensive plan to ensure services can safely resume as soon as possible.

I expect operators to explore all options for replacement services to help people complete their journeys, and have asked Hitachi for a safety inspection plan, as well as longer term repair strategy.

Our focus is to ensure trains are returned to service as quickly as possible, once they are fully approved as safe. Only then can we start to rebuild a reliable and punctual timetable for passengers.

I also want to thank passengers for their patience during what could be a significant period of prolonged disruption, likely to continue for some time.

The government has also commissioned Hitachi to present an initial assessment of when they expect problems to be resolved.

The Rail Minister called an urgent meeting with MPs (Member of Parliament) today, to keep them fully updated on progress, with representatives from Hitachi and the train operators.

The department is working closely with operators to determine what level of train service is able to run into next week and are doing everything possible to minimise the impact on passengers, although significant disruption is expected throughout next week.
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« Reply #163 on: May 09, 2021, 09:36:18 pm »

I'm looking forward to hearing GWR (Great Western Railway)'s/the railway's plans for assisting those who have been stranded away from home after holidays or other trips which began before this chaos started, and compensating those whose travel/holiday plans now lie in ruins.
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Timmer
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« Reply #164 on: May 09, 2021, 09:49:03 pm »

I just can’t stop thinking about all those Mk3 and Mk4 coaches that have already been scrapped. How they are needed now.
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