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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 94725 times)
ellendune
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« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2021, 08:38:49 »

Being covered on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News now.

Virtually no notice for those intending to travel and no alternatives provided

Another self inflicted injury and a dreadful advert for GWR (Great Western Railway)/the railways as they attempt to recover some business and attract new customers - these trains are, by railway standards, brand new.

This is why the car will always be king.

Virtually no notice - what do expect? Run them with a potentially serious defect?  Boeing did that until there had been many fatalities!

No alternatives provided - what do expect them to do at no notice?  Perhaps you would like your season ticket price to increase to provide a whole standby fleet of trains or buses in warm storage (with regular staff training so that they can be used anywhere on the network) to be brought out at a moment's notice for just such an eventuality. 

The failure is that in the drive to reduce costs we have become over-reliant on one model of train. This sort of thing happens to cars as well (though usually only as a result of accidents as they do provide notice) and they are recalled, but there are many makes and models so the impact is much smaller. 
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ChrisB
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« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2021, 08:48:06 »

National Rail on twitter

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Some GWR (Great Western Railway), Hull Trains, LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) and TPE (Trans Pennine Express) trains have been taken out of service today for safety checks as a precautionary measure. Once trains have been checked, they will be released back into service as soon as possible. Please check before travel.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2021, 08:53:24 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57036247.amp

Quote
Great Western Railway services have been cancelled after hairline cracks were found in a number of its high-speed trains.
The cracks were found in the suspension of its Hitachi 800 trains, a spokesman said.
He added that all such trains were now having to be checked.
All high-speed GWR (Great Western Railway) services between London, Bristol, Cardiff and Penzance have been cancelled and customers are advised not to attempt to travel today.
The GWR spokesperson said London North Eastern Railways, which operates the East Coast Mainline, was facing similar problems, the BBC's correspondent Jon Donnison said.
LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) is also advising its customers not to travel today.
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grahame
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« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2021, 09:12:28 »

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Avanti West Coast and West Midlands Railway are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Good.

No SWR» (South Western Railway - about)?   Ah ... bussed west from Salisbury!
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2021, 09:25:37 »

Being covered on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News now.

Virtually no notice for those intending to travel and no alternatives provided

Another self inflicted injury and a dreadful advert for GWR (Great Western Railway)/the railways as they attempt to recover some business and attract new customers - these trains are, by railway standards, brand new.

This is why the car will always be king.

Virtually no notice - what do expect? Run them with a potentially serious defect?  Boeing did that until there had been many fatalities!

No alternatives provided - what do expect them to do at no notice?  Perhaps you would like your season ticket price to increase to provide a whole standby fleet of trains or buses in warm storage (with regular staff training so that they can be used anywhere on the network) to be brought out at a moment's notice for just such an eventuality. 

The failure is that in the drive to reduce costs we have become over-reliant on one model of train. This sort of thing happens to cars as well (though usually only as a result of accidents as they do provide notice) and they are recalled, but there are many makes and models so the impact is much smaller. 


I didn't see myself suggesting that trains should be run with serious defects?  Contrary to the prevailing culture on the railways however, I'm looking at the fallout from the customer perspective.

You can fire back with passive/aggressive rhetoric if you wish, but it'll be the verdict of those standing on platforms in the rain, or who have had to cancel long awaited trips to see family and friends which will count in the end, and I suspect that verdict will ultimately see many of them on the M4 next time.

My understanding was that this problem was first flagged almost a fortnight ago, so one would imagine some sort of contingency  or at least advance communication could have been arranged.
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broadgage
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2021, 09:37:19 »

Being covered on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News now.

Virtually no notice for those intending to travel and no alternatives provided

Another self inflicted injury and a dreadful advert for GWR (Great Western Railway)/the railways as they attempt to recover some business and attract new customers - these trains are, by railway standards, brand new.

This type of regular chaos is one of the reasons why the car will always be king.

Regretfully, I agree. Whilst this particular problem is a new problem, it needs to be taken in the context of other major failures of "the railway"
Large scale signaling failures that have resulted in no effective service from major London termini, and huge disruption resulting from moderately adverse weather during which airlines and motorways operate as normal.

For reasons previously given elsewhere in these fora, I am opposed to flying and driving. If however people are to be tempted out of cars and aircraft, then "the railway" needs to up its game.
A reliable service of full length trains, even in hot weather, cold weather , snow, rain, and high tides.
Enough capacity to cope with Christmas, School holidays, Cup finals, Easter, Rugby internationals, Pop concerts, festivals, bank holidays, and all the other events with which they miserably fail to cope with.

Had the IETs (Intercity Express Train) been otherwise good trains, I would be a bit more forgiving, but this is the latest and arguably the most serious failure of a generally failed design.

And yes I know that High Speed Train's (HST (High Speed Train))s and other "proper trains" suffered from various faults and failures, but I do not EVER recall general advice  to "not travel" by train resulting.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 15:06:49 by VickiS » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2021, 09:41:51 »

They should have kept HSTs (High Speed Train), not indefinitely of course, but for a few years just in case something like this happened.

I agree. It is a crying shame that over 300 High Speed Train (HST) Mk3 carriages have now been scrapped.

These trains were very popular with the travelling public with many years of life left in them. Following refurbishment, some are still in service with Scotrail, Cross Country and GWR (Great Western Railway) as "Castle" sets.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 15:07:27 by VickiS » Logged
ellendune
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« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2021, 10:00:32 »

You can fire back with passive/aggressive rhetoric if you wish, but it'll be the verdict of those standing on platforms in the rain, or who have had to cancel long awaited trips to see family and friends which will count in the end, and I suspect that verdict will ultimately see many of them on the M4 next time.

Apologies if my response was seen as aggressive.

I am sure we all accept that the impact on passengers will be damaging to the industry at a time when confidence is already low.  

However, my point remains that you cannot go for cost cutting and have a resilient railway at the same time.

On road travel my second worst* travel experience was a 5 hours stuck on the M4 trapped by a lorry fire. So roads have their problems as well.  

*My worst being on FGW (First Great Western) when I was on the 1845 train from Paddington on Friday 8 September 1995 which was trapped by the fire on the 18.30 Paddington to Swansea train near Maidenhead after the one where the HST (High Speed Train) caught fire. Still that could have been worse as I initially got on the 18:30 train but got off again as it was too overcrowded and I couldn't face standing all the way to the first stop at Reading.

They should have kept HSTs, not indefinitely of course, but for a few years just in case something like this happened.

I agree. It is a crying shame that over 300 HST Mk3 carriages have now been scrapped.

These trains were very popular with the travelling public with many years of life left in them. Following refurbishment, some are still in service with Scotrail, Cross Country and GWR (Great Western Railway) as "Castle" sets.

They were, but as I understand it the ones that have been scrapped had severe corrosion so were probably at the end of their economic life.  The lack of any form of crash protection for the driver has also recently been highlighted on here http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23891.msg305382#msg305382.  The rules were that passengers could not be in the power cars as they weren't sufficiently protected in the event of a crash, but this means that the driver is somehow seen as expendable.  Not an argument that is easy to sustain morally. 



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broadgage
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« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2021, 10:02:45 »

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Avanti West Coast and West Midlands Railway are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Good.

No SWR» (South Western Railway - about)?   Ah ... bussed west from Salisbury!

What a fiasco.
Time to send for the army ! and yes that IS A SERIOUS SUGGESTION. Not to run the trains, HM forces would be subject to similar constraints as the TOCs (Train Operating Company).
I would send for the army for the specific task of refueling the SWT (South West Trains) units since "the railway" is clearly unable to cope with the logistics of this hugely complex task.
With HM forces refueling the SWT units, a limited alternative to the GWR (Great Western Railway) services could be provided. AND the buses at present being used could be redeployed to replace a few GWR trains.


Under normal circumstances, the inability of the railway to refuel some DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) away from the usual depot, would be just normal railway incompetence.
However with the defective trains on GWR, circumstances are not normal and extreme measures are called for.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bradshaw
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« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2021, 10:19:13 »

Now being suggested it is related to the lifting jack pockets rather than yaw damper fixing

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1390956711922610177?s=21
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2021, 10:25:25 »

Now being suggested it is related to the lifting jack pockets rather than yaw damper fixing

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1390956711922610177?s=21

I thought it was that from the start - those pesky jack pockets!  Wink
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broadgage
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« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2021, 10:30:53 »

Now being suggested it is related to the lifting jack pockets rather than yaw damper fixing

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1390956711922610177?s=21

Interesting, but I do not find the linked reports entirely clear.
Are the originally reported cracks now believed to be due to the lifting jack pockets, and not due to the yaw damper fixings ?

Or are there now two different sorts of cracks, yaw damper related and lifting pocket related ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2021, 10:36:57 »

https://www.facebook.com/gwruk/posts/10157820336986806

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Due to a number of Intercity Express Trains taken out of service for precautionary checks, there will be significant disruption across the network today
Customers are advised not to travel

Full Refunds will be provided

Visit http://gwr.com for more information

Slightly unfortunate what it's followed by a linked post saying

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Buy Cheap Train Tickets | Great Western Railway | First Great Western
Buy now and save money with cheap train tickets. With no booking fees and Nectar points to collect.

- perhaps not the most tactful of things to advertised below the "don't travel today" headline?
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2021, 10:46:04 »

Looks like there's a skeleton service on the Cotswold Line, at least - Iris/RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) appear to show one five-coach IET (Intercity Express Train) running, and apparently there was a Turbo earlier.
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broadgage
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« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2021, 10:47:44 »

Now 75 cancellations compared to 17 early this morning.
And that is about 75 EXTRA cancellations and not 58 extra as one might suppose, since the earlier cancelations have now dropped of the system as they would have completed their journey.

Many other part cancelations.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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