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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 34396 times)
jamestheredengine
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« Reply #465 on: August 25, 2021, 12:58:23 pm »

There seem to be an unusually high number of short formations today – could this be due to the coupling issue?
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broadgage
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« Reply #466 on: August 25, 2021, 03:59:21 pm »

Possibly, but could also be slightly improved staff numbers. The degree of failed trains is often largely concealed by staff shortage. If a train is cancelled for want of staff, then who cares if it WOULD have been short formed. When staff are available, then more short formations result.

Or it might be unrelated breakdowns.
Or it might be an increase in mark one cracks.
Or mark two cracks.
Or as you suggest it might be the new cracks affecting the couplings.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #467 on: August 26, 2021, 02:42:27 pm »

There seem to be an unusually high number of short formations today – could this be due to the coupling issue?

Just daily availability fluctuations.  Yesterday wasn’t great, but today there are few traincrew related cancellations and few IET (Intercity Express Train) short forms.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #468 on: August 26, 2021, 02:58:35 pm »

There seem to be an unusually high number of short formations today – could this be due to the coupling issue?

Just daily availability fluctuations.  Yesterday wasn’t great, but today there are few traincrew related cancellations and few IET (Intercity Express Train) short forms.

There are a number of short forms today from London to Plymouth & Penzance.

Not the smartest move on the Thursday before the August Bank Holiday weekend, and with COVID infections on the rise in the region which may well be made worse by overcrowded trains.

I am sure someone will respond by saying "it's better than no train at all".

Remember folks, increased leisure travel is the railways future. This isn't the way to encourage it. Roll Eyes
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #469 on: August 26, 2021, 03:26:33 pm »

There seem to be an unusually high number of short formations today – could this be due to the coupling issue?

Just daily availability fluctuations.  Yesterday wasn’t great, but today there are few traincrew related cancellations and few IET (Intercity Express Train) short forms.

There are a number of short forms today from London to Plymouth & Penzance.

There's all sorts of wrong reports formation wise on journeycheck for today.  The only trains leaving Paddington all of today for Plymouth/Penzance that are not 9/10 cars are the 14:37 and 16:36 PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PLY» (Plymouth - next trains) Semi-Fasts, and the 18:04 PAD-PNZ.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #470 on: August 26, 2021, 07:21:41 pm »

There seem to be an unusually high number of short formations today – could this be due to the coupling issue?

Just daily availability fluctuations.  Yesterday wasn’t great, but today there are few traincrew related cancellations and few IET (Intercity Express Train) short forms.

There are a number of short forms today from London to Plymouth & Penzance.

There's all sorts of wrong reports formation wise on journeycheck for today.  The only trains leaving Paddington all of today for Plymouth/Penzance that are not 9/10 cars are the 14:37 and 16:36 PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PLY» (Plymouth - next trains) Semi-Fasts, and the 18:04 PAD-PNZ.

Just seen a tweet from someone on the 5 car 1804 PAD-PNZ, described as "packed, rammed and hideous", people standing throughout......let's hope COVID is taking time off for the Bank Holiday too.

Utter madness to short form this train on this date.
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broadgage
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« Reply #471 on: August 26, 2021, 07:52:34 pm »


Just seen a tweet from someone on the 5 car 1804 PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ, described as "packed, rammed and hideous", people standing throughout......let's hope COVID is taking time off for the Bank Holiday too.

Utter madness to short form this train on this date.

IET (Intercity Express Train) supporters will no doubt say
Half a train is better than no train.
The service is better than looking at journey check suggests.
Social distancing no longer required so train length less important.
It is not always this bad.

Broadgage will say, I forecast that the new and often shorter trains would prove inadequate.
I more specifically forecast that the 18-03 (as it then was) would end being short formed. A particularly busy service and the LAST through train to Penzance.

Passengers in general, after experiencing the conditions reported are likely to say "never again" to GWR (Great Western Railway) trains.

Time to admit that the IET project has failed and to obtain alternative rolling stock. Not of course for the whole fleet, may as well carry on using the IETs that still work. But time to admit defeat  and obtain some alternative stock to avoid this sort of thing.
Charter stock perhaps ? or are there any spare HSTs (High Speed Train) left ? I know that HST scrapping was accelerated, but have they ALL been scrapped ?
Even heritage stock for branch lines to free up Turbos for busy London services.


« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 09:18:32 pm by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
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« Reply #472 on: August 26, 2021, 10:39:56 pm »

It was the barnpot decision to build so many 5 car sets rather than more single full length sets that for me is the biggest failure of the IET (Intercity Express Train) project. Look at the trouble it’s caused on the GWML (Great Western Main Line), also on the ECML (East Coast Main Line) but to a lesser extent.

Passengers who used to be conveyed on 8 carriage HSTs (High Speed Train) now regularly rammed into 5 carriage trains. It’s pathetic.

This has been going on since day 1 so you can’t blame cracks appearing on sets as to the reason why Hitachi cannot provide the correct number of trains.

Agree, you cannot trust Journeycheck…I’ve seen five vice 9/10 car sets that WEREN’T listed on Journeycheck!

Having any services to/from the Southwest, bar perhaps the off peak semi fasts, as five car sets is absolutely ridiculous and I see nothing being done to resolve this. In fact, the complete opposite now every set will need to be repaired.

The 18:04 Penzance as a five car set in the Summer crazy!

Short trains. Short of traincrew  Roll Eyes

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broadgage
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« Reply #473 on: August 27, 2021, 03:14:14 am »

"It will be ok when the whole fleet has been delivered" (so why start withdrawing HSTs (High Speed Train) BEFORE then ?)
" It will be ok when staff are are trained on the new trains" (the need for training seemed to come as a surprise)
" It will be ok when reliability modifications have been completed" So much for Japanese reliability !
" The coupling/uncoupling failures will lessen with greater familiarity"
" All trains to/from London that need to be full length, will be."
" No one needs full length trains with covid reducing travel"
" Many of the problems are due to staff self isolating"
" Once the trains are inspected for cracks, all will be well"
" We don't need the full fleet because we have reduced the timetable"

My famous crystal ball forecast this.

Time for action. Hitachi should pay for alternative rolling stock.
IET (Intercity Express Train) supporters will no doubt dismiss this as broadgage bingo, but in what ways do they consider this project to have been a success.

And if as has been suggested, hitachi wriggle out of paying up then they should be banned FOREVER from any UK (United Kingdom) government funded project. Not just rail projects.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #474 on: August 27, 2021, 03:33:13 am »

It was the barnpot decision to build so many 5 car sets rather than more single full length sets that for me is the biggest failure of the IET (Intercity Express Train) project. Look at the trouble it’s caused on the GWML (Great Western Main Line), also on the ECML (East Coast Main Line) but to a lesser extent.

Passengers who used to be conveyed on 8 carriage HSTs (High Speed Train) now regularly rammed into 5 carriage trains. It’s pathetic.

This has been going on since day 1 so you can’t blame cracks appearing on sets as to the reason why Hitachi cannot provide the correct number of trains.

Agree, you cannot trust Journeycheck…I’ve seen five vice 9/10 car sets that WEREN’T listed on Journeycheck!

Having any services to/from the Southwest, bar perhaps the off peak semi fasts, as five car sets is absolutely ridiculous and I see nothing being done to resolve this. In fact, the complete opposite now every set will need to be repaired.

The 18:04 Penzance as a five car set in the Summer crazy!

Short trains. Short of traincrew  Roll Eyes



Careful now, or you also will start to sound like me Smiley
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
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« Reply #475 on: August 27, 2021, 07:12:35 am »

Careful now, or you also will start to sound like me Smiley
Bit of a way to go yet there Broadgage as I actually quite like IETs (Intercity Express Train), more especially the EC version. Nicer interior, slightly more comfortable seats, buffet but most of all; they almost entirely run on electric traction. That’s when they are at there best on the GWML (Great Western Main Line) also, which for all routes bar the South Wales mainline is nowhere near enough. Can’t blame the trains for that one.

My main gripe is there should have mainly been a like for like replacement in terms of train length with a small fleet of 5 coach trains for lesser used routes/services. And yes, a buffet certainly on the SW fleet.

At the end of the day the management of GWR (Great Western Railway) know all this but what can they do about it with a train that was forced on them by the government for the next 30 or so years?
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broadgage
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« Reply #476 on: August 27, 2021, 10:47:30 am »

Even I would have considered IETs (Intercity Express Train) an acceptable modern train if they had buffets, padded seats, and were reliably full length.
I don't remember HSTs (High Speed Train) ever being half length ! (and yes I know that failed HSTs were handled by taking a working example from another route, that however is no consolation for long distance passengers who used to simply get an HST, but now have a lottery as to 5 car or full length)

I don't blame Hitachi for the absence of buffets or the excessive numbers of 5 car units, that is what the customer ordered.

I do however blame Hitachi for the unreliability whether due to cracks or otherwise. Likewise I blame Hitachi for the failure to cope with waves at Dawlish.

In my view, the government or the relevant agencies thereof should be stricter with Hitachi over this failed project. "You built them, you make them work" Should be the message.
In particular I feel that Hitachi should be required to lengthen some of the 5 car sets to full 9 car length ENTIRELY AT THEIR EXPENSE  as compensation for the long term lack of availability.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #477 on: August 27, 2021, 12:08:03 pm »

I don't remember HSTs (High Speed Train) ever being half length ! ...

Ah, but in current times they're running as 4 car short-forms in Cornwall up to Bristol / Cardiff, and on main lines within Scotland.  With the disadvantage over IETs (Intercity Express Train) that they can't be coupled in pairs.

There do seem to be too many shorter-than-ideal IETs running around at the moment, and that's even with "The Bedwyns" being "Turbotuted".   What the various plans are/were in terms of what %age of services could be short users contracts, and how many services could be shorter than ideal, I don't know.   Add to that cracks and crew shortages and changing patterns of travel and the equations are difficult to work out or feed data into.  Classic smoke and mirrors stuff.
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broadgage
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« Reply #478 on: August 27, 2021, 12:40:30 pm »

My crystal ball said that the "new trains will be too short" and I pointed out three other major fleet renewals that resulted in new trains being too short.

Experts said "this time will be different"

And now, many IET (Intercity Express Train) services are too short. I will let others argue about the exact proportion of short forms resulting from different causes, but the average passenger simply knows new trains=shorter trains.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #479 on: August 27, 2021, 01:54:03 pm »

There's another factor for which Hitatchi cannot be blamed.

If the first phase of the GWM electrification had gone to plan, with wires to Oxford and Bristol Temple Meads, GW (Great Western) could have used all those colourful Electrostars that the other TOCs (Train Operating Company) have lent them to cover a larger proportion of IET (Intercity Express Train) services while (hopefully) they are being fixed.

Indeed, if we had had a sustained proper electrification campaign in the last 40 years any stock anywhere in the UK (United Kingdom) apart from 3rd rail only could have filled the gap.....
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