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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 55938 times)
stuving
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« Reply #90 on: May 08, 2021, 04:54:53 pm »

It might be helpful to see where the jacking point on an 80x is, and this picture on Wikipedia just happens to show it:


Below the door there are steps, and to the right of them is what looks like a small square foothold - that's where a steel bar can be threaded through to hoist the body by crane. Depot equipment might have a different way of engaging in the same place. There's a "jack here" symbol above it if you look closely.

That white bit, whatever you call it, is reinforcement to provide attachments strong enough to mount the bogie to. I've not found a picture that shows what happens further under the floor, but I imagine what we see is the side of a plate that runs all the way across and also has the bogie pivot bearing fixed to it. It has to spread the large point loads over multiple attachment points to the relatively flimsy body shell.

The new issue has been described as a cracked weld, which might imply that this reinforcing plate is coming away from the body shell. Then again, it might not - and it might only be near a weld. Presumably the inspections, following the earlier cracks being found, have been extended to other similar areas and that has revealed a new problem. Judging by the reaction, that all units must be inspected at once and not run at all until seen to be unaffected, it must be potentially pretty serious.

The site of the earlier cracking, the famous "yaw damper bolster", is at the left-hand end of the same white object along the underside of the body shell. The yaw damper bracket attaches at two points, and the cracks run above left-hand one of those. However, those cracks were not on one of these vehicles, but on one of the intermediate motor ones (MEC3). I'm sure there are some minor differences in the various bits, though the bogie is of the same basic design.
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ray951
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« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2021, 05:15:16 pm »

... and DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) regulations means I doubt you’ll see 387s running to Swindon in passenger service ....

Grr!  - I had overlooked that ...
Why would DOO be a problem?

If DOO relies on infrastructure on the platform then I can see it would be an issue, but again couldn't infrastructure be replaced by a person on the platform making sure all doors are clear and or shut and then communicating that to the driver? I realise it is a bit more complicated than that as you need to find the people, make sure they can be identified by the driver, understand what their duties are, the 'workaround' then has to be communciated to everyone, etc. and all of that will take time.
If DOO doesnt rely on any off-train infrastructure then what is the issue?

And if you don't want to run as DOO could a guard not be assigned to the trains? Class 800/802 and 165/166 can operate with and without guards is the same true of class 387?

I can appreciate that it takes time to organise replacement processes when must of your trains get taken out of service but I would hope that if this continues beyond today/tomorrow then GWR (Great Western Railway) will attempt to run at least a skelton service rather than just telling passengers sorry but we can't do anything.

I assume that GWR has a risk register and would be interested to know if all trains of one type being taken out of service is one of those risks and what their contigencies are to mitigate that risk?
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RailCornwall
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« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2021, 05:17:13 pm »

Statement from Hitachi on Twitter

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2021, 05:23:18 pm »

... and DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) regulations means I doubt you’ll see 387s running to Swindon in passenger service ....

Grr!  - I had overlooked that ...
Why would DOO be a problem?

I can appreciate that it takes time to organise replacement processes when must of your trains get taken out of service but I would hope that if this continues beyond today/tomorrow then GWR (Great Western Railway) will attempt to run at least a skelton service rather than just telling passengers sorry but we can't do anything.

Yes, the post Graham quoted went on to say that procedures could be modified if there was an ongoing shortage, but not to expect it this weekend.

GWR were/are planning on using 387s to and from Cardiff for events, so new procedures would have to be in place for that, but obviously the need for that has yet to materialise.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2021, 05:34:16 pm »

There would be a need for staff training to run guards (beyond Didcot)

No staff are assigned to that job nor would any yet have the knowledge/training for that route beyond Didcot.

Where do you find guards in a staff pool that aren’t assigned to that?
How long would it take to train them once located?

Weeks is the answer, even after you’ve licated suitable staff. Minths if you have to employ them.

I’m unsure why some think they can just be deployed. The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) has a new head honcho, who has already stated he’s looking for a fight or two. So everything would need doing by the book and agreed.
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broadgage
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« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2021, 06:38:51 pm »

I have heard a report, that of the IETS checked for cracks that 80% have failed, and only 20% have passed.

I can NOT SUBSTANTIATE this report, can anyone confirm or deny ?

If true, this implies no effective service for MONTHS as repairs sound time consuming, and the remaining 20% will presumably also develop cracks.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
JayMac
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« Reply #96 on: May 08, 2021, 06:39:28 pm »

Weeks is the answer, even after you’ve licated suitable staff. Minths if you have to employ them.

You are Officer Crabtree and I claim my £5. Tongue
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#NotMyKing
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« Reply #97 on: May 08, 2021, 06:50:38 pm »

Sources within control claim:

XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) will run Bristol to Swindon shuttles.
West Country services will utilise 2+4 HSTs (High Speed Train) up to Reading or possibly into Paddington.
There will only be 10 IET (Intercity Express Train) sets available until at least Wednesday
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #98 on: May 08, 2021, 06:53:22 pm »

Blimey - photographic evidence.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/pictures-show-cracks-stopped-gwrs-5390963?fbclid=IwAR1zC0S7L04wpPwA3ueuKPjJDAfjIGqSCV5DlrY6qxFBffcFIaQ_MCDZ7QY
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devon_metro
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« Reply #99 on: May 08, 2021, 07:01:23 pm »


That picture is actually related to the issue identified a few weeks ago - the yaw damper. It was leaked onto a forum.

I read on said forum that >80% of GWR (Great Western Railway)'s units have failed the initial inspection with the new problem - source seems well informed.
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a-driver
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« Reply #100 on: May 08, 2021, 07:02:17 pm »


That photo doesn’t relate to the jacking point cracks.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2021, 07:07:44 pm »

Confirmation from GWR (Great Western Railway) in an email that the problem continues into tomorrow, with the same ‘do not travel’ message continuing
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a-driver
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« Reply #102 on: May 08, 2021, 07:10:40 pm »

Confirmation from GWR (Great Western Railway) in an email that the problem continues into tomorrow, with the same ‘do not travel’ message continuing

Will continue to at least Thursday
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broadgage
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« Reply #103 on: May 08, 2021, 07:12:12 pm »


No that is last weeks cracks, quite different from this weeks cracks !
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #104 on: May 08, 2021, 07:16:46 pm »

Quote
Dear Graham

You may be aware that this morning Hitachi withdrew their long distance InterCity Express (IET (Intercity Express Train)) trains from service as a precautionary measure following routine inspection of the fleet overnight.  This has affected a number of rail companies including GWR (Great Western Railway), and Hitachi are now carrying out checks on all IET trains.

Services on all our long distance routes were therefore cancelled today and it is now clear that this will continue into tomorrow, Sunday 9 May. We are advising customers on long distance routes not to travel. Refunds will be provided, and customers should visit www.gwr.com for more information.  Our local and branch line services are unaffected, but we expect them to be busy given the current situation.

As soon as the trains have been checked and cleared, we will release them back into service.  However, until the inspections are complete, we will not know the impact on services next week. GWR managers and teams are therefore looking now to see how we might use the rest of our fleet to provide the best possible service across our routes.   

As things become clearer we will update you and we will keep customers informed of changes through our social media and on our website – www.gwr.com

We are grateful for anything you can do to help with that, and I will be back in touch as things develop.

Best wishes
 
Jane
Jane Jones | Head of Public Affairs | Great Western Railway
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