Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:15 05 Dec 2022
- Train strikes: RMT union rejects offer to stop Christmas walkouts
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds

On this day
5th Dec (1927)
Post Office Underground opens to Paddington (*)

Train RunningShort Run
14:04 London Paddington to Truro
17:26 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn
Delayed
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
17:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
18:21 Plymouth to Truro
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 05, 2022, 06:25:13 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[291] End date for Castles - initially a Rumour Mill thread
[106] Drayton Green
[65] Rail unions strike action 2022/2023
[39] Advent Quiz - December 2022
[36] Where would YOU like to go in 2023?
[19] Trial of new revenue protection technology
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 38
  Print  
Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 55981 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37319



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #120 on: May 09, 2021, 09:11:02 am »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Latest - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57042384

Quote
Travel disruption caused by the discovery of cracks in some high speed trains is expected to continue into next week, a rail industry group has warned.

Robert Nisbet, of the Rail Delivery Group, said initial inspections of 183 trains taken out of service on Saturday should conclude by the end of Sunday. But he warned that disruption was expected to "carry on for a few days".

Two of the UK (United Kingdom)'s busiest rail firms are warning people not to travel on Sunday.

On Saturday Hitachi 800 trains operated by Great Western Railway and London North Eastern Railway trains were taken out of service for safety inspections.

Hitachi has apologised and said it was investigating the issue.

Mr Nisbet, whose organisation represents train operators and Network rail, apologised to anyone affected by the disruption.

He said rail firms were running as many services as possible, including rail replacement services, in addition to laying on extra staff at affected stations, relaxing ticket acceptance rules and offering compensation for delays.

Mr Nisbet told BBC Breakfast that it was "gratifying to see the speed" at which initial inspections were taking place. He said he understood that Hitachi engineers would complete these inspections by the end of Sunday.

But he cautioned that he was still "expecting some disruption to carry on for a few days".

He said: "It's impossible for me to say exactly how long that is going to take, we are obviously going through this as quickly as possible but we don't want to rush it.

"We want to sure that all of those trains are thoroughly inspected and cleared and are put into service when things are ready.

"But there may well be a knock on effect for some of those timetables into next week."
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5087



View Profile
« Reply #121 on: May 09, 2021, 09:23:49 am »

FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and broadgage answers thereto.

What about the lack of TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) on a heritage loco ? Give a derogation or exemption for branch line use. Remembering that these are LESS BUSY than some heritage lines and are therefore very low risk.

What about the lack of Cab secure secure radio on heritage trains ? If portable equipment is not available then issue Inmarsat satellite telephones for emergency use, AND cellphones for routine use.

What about the lack of central door locking ? Have stewards to watch each door, volunteers from a preserved line could probably do this for free, for the fun of taking part in such a rare event.

What about lack of route knowledge ? Have a GWR (Great Western Railway) driver on each train to advise WRT (with regard to ) speed limits and signals. Actual driving to be done by someone familiar with the train.

What about emergency procedures ? Two guards, one from GWR and one familiar with the heritage stock being used.

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 6646



View Profile
« Reply #122 on: May 09, 2021, 09:33:06 am »

FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and broadgage answers thereto.

What about the lack of TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) on a heritage loco ? Give a derogation or exemption for branch line use. Remembering that these are LESS BUSY than some heritage lines and are therefore very low risk.

What about the lack of Cab secure secure radio on heritage trains ? If portable equipment is not available then issue Inmarsat satellite telephones for emergency use, AND cellphones for routine use.

What about the lack of central door locking ? Have stewards to watch each door, volunteers from a preserved line could probably do this for free, for the fun of taking part in such a rare event.

What about lack of route knowledge ? Have a GWR (Great Western Railway) driver on each train to advise WRT (with regard to ) speed limits and signals. Actual driving to be done by someone familiar with the train.

What about emergency procedures ? Two guards, one from GWR and one familiar with the heritage stock being used.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrrIRr9arkM
Logged
CMRail
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 399


View Profile
« Reply #123 on: May 09, 2021, 09:50:46 am »

FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and broadgage answers thereto.

What about the lack of TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) on a heritage loco ? Give a derogation or exemption for branch line use. Remembering that these are LESS BUSY than some heritage lines and are therefore very low risk.

What about the lack of Cab secure secure radio on heritage trains ? If portable equipment is not available then issue Inmarsat satellite telephones for emergency use, AND cellphones for routine use.

What about the lack of central door locking ? Have stewards to watch each door, volunteers from a preserved line could probably do this for free, for the fun of taking part in such a rare event.

What about lack of route knowledge ? Have a GWR (Great Western Railway) driver on each train to advise WRT (with regard to ) speed limits and signals. Actual driving to be done by someone familiar with the train.

What about emergency procedures ? Two guards, one from GWR and one familiar with the heritage stock being used.



I highly doubt that any "emergency" stock that is available would be available for use on the network. Drivers won't have signed them, neither guards, engineers will he unable to deal with any problems if they arrive, they (possibly) won't have been cleared for most of the network and some will have major passenger safety concerns in terms of compliance with regulations. You then move into problems like depot space, working with the line speed, short platforms, COVID signage compliance etc etc.

If you are a TOC (Train Operating Company) looking at this the difficulty of hiring stock would seem far to problematic.

Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #124 on: May 09, 2021, 09:52:11 am »

FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and broadgage answers thereto.

What about the lack of TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) on a heritage loco ? Give a derogation or exemption for branch line use. Remembering that these are LESS BUSY than some heritage lines and are therefore very low risk.

What about the lack of Cab secure secure radio on heritage trains ? If portable equipment is not available then issue Inmarsat satellite telephones for emergency use, AND cellphones for routine use.

What about the lack of central door locking ? Have stewards to watch each door, volunteers from a preserved line could probably do this for free, for the fun of taking part in such a rare event.

What about lack of route knowledge ? Have a GWR (Great Western Railway) driver on each train to advise WRT (with regard to ) speed limits and signals. Actual driving to be done by someone familiar with the train.

What about emergency procedures ? Two guards, one from GWR and one familiar with the heritage stock being used.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrrIRr9arkM

You are not suggesting we enlist the help of the Walter Mitty/Dad's Army Alliance, surely...
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3929


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #125 on: May 09, 2021, 09:56:08 am »

Lets put the use of 'heritage' and 'charter' rolling stock into perspective; there is something like 80 class 800/x units with something like 570 passenger carrying vehicles.

For mainline running I doubt there are that many charter coaches available.  Heritage railways are unlikely to have mainline running certification, there stock being maintained for 'light railways' use with 25 mph running, no central door locking ect.

Locomotives are not too much of an issue to haul the couches if you could fine enough, although many heritage railways still use vacuum brakes finding enough locos which are vacuum fitted / working?  (when heritage railways have a visiting air brake only loco as a guest engine they will use one of their heritage locos as a translator)

The quickest solution is for Hitachi to complete the inspection of the trains as quickly as possible, once the severity of the problem is known then mitigation and control measures can be put in place
Logged

Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5087



View Profile
« Reply #126 on: May 09, 2021, 09:57:42 am »

To use ALL my suggestions for alternative stock would indeed be verging into the realms of fantasy, and even I do not expect ALL suggestions to be followed.
I would however hope that SOME substitute rolling stock could be used, rather than simply saying "don't travel by train"

Use of steam, even on a small scale would be excellent PR (Public Relations).
IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) only one return service is being offered to Penzance and one more to Plymouth. One extra service a day hauled by Tornado would be a significant improvement. (twelve coaches to Plymouth, at which the rear six will be detached to give reliable performance over the Devon banks)

Likewise the short term return of a few old High Speed Train's (HST (High Speed Train))s would help, despite the "rush to scrap High Speed Train's (HST)s to prevent re-use" policy, a few are available.


More likely is to simply do nothing and tell people not to travel.
I suspect that significant lack of IETs (Intercity Express Train) will continue until Christmas.
GWR (Great Western Railway) will be forever hoping that IET availability will "soon" improve and that alternative trains are not worth providing.

About the middle of next year an enquiry will be announced and produce the finding that "perhaps more should have been done, (WRT (with regard to ) to alternative rolling stock) but no one realised how long the crisis would continue for"

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 08:52:19 pm by VickiS » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
nickswift99
Full Member
***
Posts: 93


View Profile
« Reply #127 on: May 09, 2021, 09:59:38 am »

Are things bad enough to bring out the Strategic Reserve?  Surely there must have been a plan to deal with all of the safety issues of a modern railway in the event of its use?

I expect there will be lots of activity around Box today…

In all seriousness, if you are a passenger or work for GWR (Great Western Railway) you have my sympathy.
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #128 on: May 09, 2021, 10:07:22 am »

Are things bad enough to bring out the Strategic Reserve?  Surely there must have been a plan to deal with all of the safety issues of a modern railway in the event of its use?

Fun but unrelated fact - I've just discovered that it is easier to choke on my grapefruit than it is to choke on my cornflakes or my toast!
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5087



View Profile
« Reply #129 on: May 09, 2021, 10:09:08 am »

Lets put the use of 'heritage' and 'charter' rolling stock into perspective; there is something like 80 class 800/x units with something like 570 passenger carrying vehicles.

For mainline running I doubt there are that many charter coaches available.  Heritage railways are unlikely to have mainline running certification, there stock being maintained for 'light railways' use with 25 mph running, no central door locking ect.

Locomotives are not too much of an issue to haul the couches if you could fine enough, although many heritage railways still use vacuum brakes finding enough locos which are vacuum fitted / working?  (when heritage railways have a visiting air brake only loco as a guest engine they will use one of their heritage locos as a translator)

The quickest solution is for Hitachi to complete the inspection of the trains as quickly as possible, once the severity of the problem is known then mitigation and control measures can be put in place

I very much doubt that enough heritage stock could be located to replace all the IETs (Intercity Express Train). Every little helps though.
At present only ONE daily return to Penzance is being provided. Use of a railtour locomotive and main line certificated set of coaches could double this.

Not certain that "Hitachi inspecting the trains as quickly as possible" will help. We already know that all but 5 units are defective, and those 5 are presumably liable to develop similar cracks.
I am not yet aware of any plans to repair them and return to service.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5087



View Profile
« Reply #130 on: May 09, 2021, 10:19:17 am »

Are things bad enough to bring out the Strategic Reserve?  Surely there must have been a plan to deal with all of the safety issues of a modern railway in the event of its use?

I expect there will be lots of activity around Box today…

In all seriousness, if you are a passenger or work for GWR (Great Western Railway) you have my sympathy.

Unfortunately, the strategic reserve is now operated by a public/private partnership, day to day operation being in the hands of the brother in law of a Mr hiitachii.
They greatly modernised the strategic reserve by filling it with bi mode IETs (Intercity Express Train), these being the new standard type of UK (United Kingdom) train.
Last year when cracks were found on IETs in service, this was kept secret and the cracked units swopped over, in secret for good units to avoid penalties and loss of face.
They have now run out of good units and the strategic reserve is full of cracked IETs.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37319



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #131 on: May 09, 2021, 10:36:41 am »

From the Yorkshire Post:

Quote
Hull Trains confirmed yesterday that its five Class 802s had been inspected and returned to service.

Transpennine Express's fleet of 19 Nova 1 trains, which are also Class 802, are affected and the operator phased them back into service late on Saturday after their checks were completed.

These are very recent units, I note ...

Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37319



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #132 on: May 09, 2021, 10:51:12 am »

Are things bad enough to bring out the Strategic Reserve?  Surely there must have been a plan to deal with all of the safety issues of a modern railway in the event of its use?
They have now run out of good units and the strategic reserve is full of cracked IETs (Intercity Express Train).

Strategic steam locomotive reserves were kept in Sweden, Finland and Russia, but I think all are now gone. Gauge and loading gauge problems w.r.t. bringing them to the UK (United Kingdom)

In searching, I discovered "To have in supply in case of a disaster, the US has a strategic reserve of petroleum. China has a similar repository of pork. Canada, of course, has a backup inventory of maple syrup."  What is the calorific value of Maple Syrup as a fuel?  Is it sustainable and efficient?  Am I asking a sticky question?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
ray951
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 412


View Profile
« Reply #133 on: May 09, 2021, 10:51:48 am »

I see that there are some EMU (Electric Multiple Unit) shuttles between Didcot and Swindon today, I assume these are class 387. 0946 and 1105 from Didcot are a couple of examples.
Well done GWR (Great Western Railway) and glad that weeks of training wasn't required as some have predicted.
Although as I type this I see that the 1105 is now canceled , hopefully I haven't posted this too soon. Smiley
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6163


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #134 on: May 09, 2021, 11:03:15 am »


Quote
Disruption 'handled in the worst way'

Lorraine McConnon was due to take a train from Aberdeen to London King's Cross on Saturday morning. She had planned to travel from there to Gatwick Airport for an overnight stay before a flight to France on Sunday.

She said the situation was "being handled in the worst way" and that she "got less than 30 minutes' notice by email" of the cancellations, by which time she was already at the train station.

Lorraine travelled from Aberdeen to Glasgow by car with the aim of catching a train to Edinburgh, but says she missed a train suggested by staff while she was talking to them.

She hoped to catch a ScotRail train but feared it could now take "up to four changes" before she arrived at Gatwick.

"This is of course an essential journey for me or I wouldn't have booked," she says.

Rob James said his 84-year-old father only found out about the train cancellations once he'd arrived at London King's Cross to board a train to Inverness to visit him.

His father had been planning to stay with him because Rob's brother needed to self-isolate at their father's house in Bournemouth after arriving in the UK (United Kingdom) from Thailand.

Rob, who lives in John O'Groats, said: "My dad is at King's Cross and doesn't know what to do. He doesn't have a ticket to go back to Bournemouth now as his return ticket's not valid for a few weeks.

"He's trying to keep away from people and so is a bit loathe to seek help from staff in person.

"I haven't seen him in two years and now this… He's at one end of the country and I'm at the other. We were supposed to see each other in March and then Covid happened."

I'm sure that there have been things not handled in the best way possible, but I would not have like to play the hand GWR (Great Western Railway) or LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) were dealt at dawn this morning.  Easy if your caught up in it to say "worst possible" but there is no magic solution; easy to ask "why not do x" but there is often reason "y" why not. Not that the passengers are actually suggesting "x" at all in the quote above.

Reading other issues too - people stuck in Cornwall at the end of a holiday, having to vacate their self-catering place for it to be readied for the next, and conversely people going away being promised a refund and asking if GWR will pay their accommodation cancellation charges too.


I also wonder what the best possible way to handle this would be. I haven't come up with anything yet. Let's face it - this is a pretty serious problem without a ready-made Plan B. That at least makes PR (Public Relations) reasonably easy, although that certainly won't stop people complaining. The worst possible way to handle it, whatever Miss McConnon may think, would have been to keep quiet, continue to run trains with a possible fault until they could be inspected and fixed one at a time, while keeping fingers crossed and hoping disaster doesn't strike.

Hopefully, someone at GWR is, as we speak, looking at what possible skellington service can be cobbled together, and skilled technicians at Hitachi's various plants are carrying out repairs in a fashion determined by engineers, metallurgists and sundry other scientists in Japan over what will have been a very long working weekend.

The broadgage contingency plan could be put into action within a few months, once all buffet cars have been inspected for welds, brakes, and a sufficiency of port.
Logged

Now, please!
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 38
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page