Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:35 29 Mar 2024
* Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
* Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
09:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading
09:46 Westbury to Swindon
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
10:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
09:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 09:46:16 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[149] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[64] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[59] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[58] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[52] Return of the BRUTE?
[36] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 49
  Print  
Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 93581 times)
Wizard
Full Member
***
Posts: 70


View Profile
« Reply #330 on: May 17, 2021, 11:48:33 »

The trains that grahame refer’s to are not in the timetable for the most part, they were already removed as a result of the pandemic and lower passenger numbers.

A quick glance at journeyplan suggests there are 0 cancelled trains today. A number of long distance services are short formed, but that’s quite an achievement, especially with today being the first day of the new timetable and a few extra trains running (Bristol back to half hourly). A good effort from everybody involved there, considering how things were last Monday.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #331 on: May 17, 2021, 11:54:29 »

That number of trains that are "not running" but that do not count as cancellations does sound to me like a fiddle to make things look better than they are.

I think you missed some of the subtle points of Graham's post, which he flagged himself in the first line of his post.   Roll Eyes

The only 'fiddle' would be if the new Summer 2021 timetable that started yesterday had been further amended since it was published before the IET (Intercity Express Train) issues were discovered.  As it is, that timetable is running largely as advertised, and was based on what demand is expected over the summer.

And the report that GWR (Great Western Railway) are only short of 11 IETs is better than the "dozens" suggested elsewhere but it is still a significant shortfall.

But still way better than all of your predictions foresaw.  It's all going rather well so far today, given the upheaval of last week.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #332 on: May 17, 2021, 12:06:14 »

Thomas Ableman - now MD of Snap Travel Tech (on-demand coach services) and previously a director at Chiltern Trains, writes a daily blog - today he looks at what went wrong & how current systems prevented GWR (Great Western Railway) from a quick recovery - worthwhile read -

https://www.freewheeling.info/blog/class-800-debacle
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #333 on: May 17, 2021, 13:02:41 »

Thomas Ableman - now MD of Snap Travel Tech (on-demand coach services) and previously a director at Chiltern Trains, writes a daily blog - today he looks at what went wrong & how current systems prevented GWR (Great Western Railway) from a quick recovery - worthwhile read -

https://www.freewheeling.info/blog/class-800-debacle

An excellent article (member mirror (here)) - in amongst the points:

Quote
Like all train companies at the moment, GWR is paid to run trains, not to get people to their destinations. The importance of precisely who the customer is becomes so visible in a crisis like this.

Because GWR thinks in terms of trains, not people (and is paid to do so), the automatic corporate response is to publicise a list of train routes that would not be running.

Even after an entire week, the only information available to customers was a list of alternative services based around railway geography. Remember, most passengers don’t know railway geography. If all you know is that you live in Bath and want to be in London ...

Indeed - and subconsciously, I suppose, I was aware and trying to update some threads here to help.  Far, far too little - you did, indeed, need to know railway geography to understand alternatives last week ... and had it carried on into this week, I was seriously wondering about an underground style map!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #334 on: May 17, 2021, 13:15:01 »

A quick glance at journeyplan suggests there are 0 cancelled trains today. ...

There is, however, some slight of hand.  All direct (through) trains from Bedwyn to London (an example I was alerted to) have been cancelled - except they're not showing up as cancelled ... JourneyCheck shows services taken out of the journey planner in the last 48 or 72 hours (I think it is) and these were taken out prior to that.  So JC doesn't think they're cancelled, but the customers will!!

There is a shuttle running from Bedwyn to Newbury ...  or in Freewheeling terms "Passengers travelling from Hungerford to London should take a local train to Newbury at 5 minutes after every hour and change there for a local train to Reading, changing again for a connection to London.  You will have a wait of around 55 minutes at Newbury.  In some hours, there are expresses from Newbury to Reading and London which will be considerably faster, but you will still have a significant wait at Newbury and slower journey than normal".
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #335 on: May 17, 2021, 14:24:26 »

My understanding from prior to this problsm was that 70 IET (Intercity Express Train) units are required to service what would have been the new May timetable on a werkday. So 59 is only 11 short of that requirement whicjh in no one’s vocabulary could be described as “dozens”

Not even quite one dozen.
Logged

Now, please!
Worcester_Passenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1704


View Profile
« Reply #336 on: May 17, 2021, 16:19:48 »

Thomas Ableman - now MD of Snap Travel Tech (on-demand coach services) and previously a director at Chiltern Trains, writes a daily blog - today he looks at what went wrong & how current systems prevented GWR (Great Western Railway) from a quick recovery - worthwhile read -

https://www.freewheeling.info/blog/class-800-debacle

An excellent article (member mirror (here)) - in amongst the points:

Quote
Like all train companies at the moment, GWR is paid to run trains, not to get people to their destinations. The importance of precisely who the customer is becomes so visible in a crisis like this.

Agree whole-heartedly about the article, and about the important question of who the customer is.

I've posted elsewhere about my other half's experiences with travelling to and from London last week. She reports that, when the Turbo shuttle from Worcester came into Oxford, there was an 'all-change' announcement about getting the CrossCountry service to Reading, but there was no mention of the possibility of catching a Chiltern train to Marylebone.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #337 on: May 17, 2021, 18:04:44 »

I feel a bit uneasy about quoting so much from one source in another forum - as if it's somehow improper. But maybe an exception can be made for Clarence Yard, posting on railforums, as this is clearly someone involved in fleet management at GWR (Great Western Railway), and GWR know about it. Maybe not quite semi-official, but certainly a privileged source.

This morning's update included:
Quote
The metal appears to be suffering from Stress Corrosion Cracking, a condition that will worsen over time as environmental conditions and duty cycle both contribute to the propagation rate. Every 80x unit will require remedial attention when the SCC(resolve) reaches a certain point, either in the jacking plate and/or in the yaw bolster assembly.

As at this morning, 63 out of the 93 GWR IET (Intercity Express Train) sets are available for traffic. The full service requirement for the pre-Covid timetable is 80.

There's the expected flood of short-forms on JourneyCheck, showing that every unit is running on its own now, It only takes a few services taken out completely to make up any further deficit, though I'm sure there is still no margin of cover for failures.

On the subject of stress corrosion cracking, I'm still puzzled by the lack of the right kind of stress. You'd expect a crack like this one to be promoted by a force pulling it open, and it's hard to see that happening. But a following post referred to stresses created during manufacture, presumably thermally due to welding. I don't think there's any point trying to imagine what sort of stresses they would be. For a start, you'd need a good idea of the shape of this thing in 3D and its make-up; even then it'd be too hard on the poor old brain. 
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #338 on: May 17, 2021, 18:28:41 »

I feel a bit uneasy about quoting so much from one source in another forum - as if it's somehow improper.

From a Coffee Shop viewpoint, members are welcome to quote from here under usual "quotes for comment" rather than "ripping off huge amounts of material" style, and please consider individual member's copyright especially buy not limited to pictures.

But ... (and I know it's the opposite direction to you were asking) ... please go ahead,  dropping our name in there and adding a link back.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eXPassenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 547


View Profile
« Reply #339 on: May 18, 2021, 12:50:16 »

I feel a bit uneasy about quoting so much from one source in another forum - as if it's somehow improper. But maybe an exception can be made for Clarence Yard, posting on railforums, as this is clearly someone involved in fleet management at GWR (Great Western Railway), and GWR know about it. Maybe not quite semi-official, but certainly a privileged source.

This morning's update included:
Quote
The metal appears to be suffering from Stress Corrosion Cracking, a condition that will worsen over time as environmental conditions and duty cycle both contribute to the propagation rate. Every 80x unit will require remedial attention when the SCC(resolve) reaches a certain point, either in the jacking plate and/or in the yaw bolster assembly.

As at this morning, 63 out of the 93 GWR IET (Intercity Express Train) sets are available for traffic. The full service requirement for the pre-Covid timetable is 80.

There's the expected flood of short-forms on JourneyCheck, showing that every unit is running on its own now, It only takes a few services taken out completely to make up any further deficit, though I'm sure there is still no margin of cover for failures.

On the subject of stress corrosion cracking, I'm still puzzled by the lack of the right kind of stress. You'd expect a crack like this one to be promoted by a force pulling it open, and it's hard to see that happening. But a following post referred to stresses created during manufacture, presumably thermally due to welding. I don't think there's any point trying to imagine what sort of stresses they would be. For a start, you'd need a good idea of the shape of this thing in 3D and its make-up; even then it'd be too hard on the poor old brain. 

There are comments that chloride can influence this type of cracking.  I wonder if the fact that Japan does not use salt for deicing but the UK (United Kingdom) does has an impact.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #340 on: May 18, 2021, 13:04:34 »

63 sets out of 80 available sounds like a shortfall of 17, rather worse than the 11 sets short reported elsewhere in this thread.

The widespread use of salt in the UK (United Kingdom) for de-icing might be a factor in the type of cracking reported, but should have been foreseen.
Any in any case, salt is primarily applied to roads not to railway lines, and road salt would only affect the railway in limited locations such as road bridges over railway lines, or railways and roads in very close proximity.

Seawater at Dawlish might be a factor, but resistance to the well known conditions at that place was meant to have been an essential requirement of the IET (Intercity Express Train) designs.

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #341 on: May 18, 2021, 13:34:23 »

63 sets out of 80 available sounds like a shortfall of 17, rather worse than the 11 sets short reported elsewhere in this thread.

Clarence Yard said 80 units were required for the pre-COVID timetable, not the current one.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 858



View Profile
« Reply #342 on: May 18, 2021, 14:44:21 »

I suppose we should be grateful that the man who missed this slight crack on a bridge he was inspecting in the USA didn't work for Hitachi/GWR (Great Western Railway). He is now looking for work - probably having trouble finding that too !
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #343 on: May 18, 2021, 20:26:40 »


Quote
The metal appears to be suffering from Stress Corrosion Cracking, a condition that will worsen over time as environmental conditions and duty cycle both contribute to the propagation rate. 

I think this must be the metal lurgy I read about somewhere.
Logged

Now, please!
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9810



View Profile
« Reply #344 on: May 18, 2021, 21:08:03 »

Seawater at Dawlish might be a factor, but resistance to the well known conditions at that place was meant to have been an essential requirement of the IET (Intercity Express Train) designs.

Won’t be a factor for some of the fleet as they don’t work West of England services. 
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 49
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page