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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 36761 times)
bobm
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« Reply #390 on: June 01, 2021, 05:55:16 pm »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.
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« Reply #391 on: June 01, 2021, 05:57:20 pm »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.

Hardly likely to be diagrammed for an IET (Intercity Express Train) then!  Cheesy
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grahame
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« Reply #392 on: June 01, 2021, 06:09:34 pm »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.

Hardly likely to be diagrammed for an IET (Intercity Express Train) then!  Cheesy

I think the point another member was making was that a 5 car Turbo becomes a 3 car turbo on its normal duty and a 2 car turbo on the Bedwyn shuttle, so that the lack of an IET for the latter could mean a shorter train on the former.
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bobm
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« Reply #393 on: June 01, 2021, 06:13:02 pm »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.

Hardly likely to be diagrammed for an IET (Intercity Express Train) then!  Cheesy

Quite a few short formations today by the looks of it?

Note that roughly a quarter of those are IETs, the rest are smaller DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit).

Yes, but I suspect that many of the non IET short forms may be an INDIRECT result of IET non availability. For example a turbo being used in place of a cracked IET, resulting in a shortage of units for branch line or secondary services.
Several short forms are reported as being 3 car instead of 5 car, these I suspect to be turbos instead of IETs, resulting in short formation of whatever would have been worked by the turbo.

I was responding to the above.
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broadgage
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« Reply #394 on: June 01, 2021, 06:27:23 pm »

I can not remember which trains were advised as being 3 car instead of 5 car, but believe that there were several earlier today.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #395 on: June 01, 2021, 06:58:12 pm »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.

Hardly likely to be diagrammed for an IET (Intercity Express Train) then!  Cheesy

I think the point another member was making was that a 5 car Turbo becomes a 3 car turbo on its normal duty and a 2 car turbo on the Bedwyn shuttle, so that the lack of an IET for the latter could mean a shorter train on the former.

He made that point, but then a secondary point that read to me that he suspected several 3-car Turbos were replacing 5-car IETs unplanned (post #388).  But that now he can’t remember which ones.  Perhaps he can clarify?  Or point out similar occurrences tomorrow?  I don’t personally remember seeing any today.
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« Reply #396 on: June 01, 2021, 09:04:19 pm »

Yesterday morning, the following were reported as out of service from the GWR (Great Western Railway) IET (Intercity Express Train) fleet:

For cracks (mostly yaw bolster rather than jacking point):      8x800-5, 3x800-9, 2x802-5

In checking/NDT:           3x800-5                                      total 16

For other reasons:          2x800-5, 1x802-9                         total 3

From what we've seen, the jacking point cracks don't go far enough round any piece to allow it to drop off. So it would not have been so hard to convince yourself that they can all run safely. Jacking the train, now that's a different proposition. And that logic would not lead to a similar conclusion on the yaw damper mounting.

Thanks for the update.
From the above, it seems to me that the 13 units stopped for cracks are unlikely to return to service this year as repairs are not even planned as yet.

The 3 units stopped for examination may or may not return to service depending on what is found.

The other 3 units stopped for unrelated reasons will presumably return to use, it does however seem a reasonable supposition that other units will from time to time be stopped for unrelated reasons, and the number of such might tend to remain broadly similar.

The most optimistic forecast that could reasonably be made from the above is therefore
13 units stopped long term, probably for the rest of the year at least.
3 units returned to use after examinations.
3 units returned to service after unrelated issues dealt with.
OPTIMISTIC forecast, long term lack of 13 units.

A more realistic forecast based on the above data would be.
13 units stopped for cracks for the rest of this year.
Of the three units stopped for examination, one returns to service, other two stopped long term.
3 units stopped for unrelated reasons, return to service, BUT other units suffer unrelated  issues, with an average of 3 stopped at any one time.
MEDIUM FORECAST a long lack of about 18 units, varying slightly due to random unrelated faults and varying times to repair.

A reasonably pessimistic forecast would be
About 18 units out of use long term as above.
And about one unit a month withdrawn in addition due to cracks worsening.
18 units short to begin with, rising to about 25 units short by the end of the year.
About 25 units short for most of NEXT year as repairs slower than expected and only keep up with new failures.

Comments ?

I think some of your sources (or wild speculations) are wide of the mark……
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broadgage
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« Reply #397 on: June 01, 2021, 10:24:20 pm »

Yesterday morning, the following were reported as out of service from the GWR (Great Western Railway) IET (Intercity Express Train) fleet:

For cracks (mostly yaw bolster rather than jacking point):      8x800-5, 3x800-9, 2x802-5

In checking/NDT:           3x800-5                                      total 16

For other reasons:          2x800-5, 1x802-9                         total 3

From what we've seen, the jacking point cracks don't go far enough round any piece to allow it to drop off. So it would not have been so hard to convince yourself that they can all run safely. Jacking the train, now that's a different proposition. And that logic would not lead to a similar conclusion on the yaw damper mounting.

This is my source for the number of units unavailable.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #398 on: June 02, 2021, 05:04:42 am »

There were some Cardiff - Portsmouths early on which ran short south of Westbury.

Hardly likely to be diagrammed for an IET (Intercity Express Train) then!  Cheesy

I think the point another member was making was that a 5 car Turbo becomes a 3 car turbo on its normal duty and a 2 car turbo on the Bedwyn shuttle, so that the lack of an IET for the latter could mean a shorter train on the former.

He made that point, but then a secondary point that read to me that he suspected several 3-car Turbos were replacing 5-car IETs unplanned (post #388).  But that now he can’t remember which ones.  Perhaps he can clarify?  Or point out similar occurrences tomorrow?  I don’t personally remember seeing any today.

The 06-06 Bristol Temple meads to Worcester is reported today as being 3 car instead of 5 car for part of the journey. Source is Journey check.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #399 on: June 02, 2021, 06:02:36 am »

The 06-06 Bristol Temple meads to Worcester is reported today as being 3 car instead of 5 car for part of the journey. Source is Journey check.

That's a 3 + 2 unit (probably turbo) being replaced by a single unit.  Reading between the lines, the 2 cars which come off at Gloucester at 07:12 normally join a 2 car train that calls there at 07:46 on its way from Worcester Shrub Hill (leaves at 07:07) on its way to Weymouth (11:00).  Today, that's showing as a 3 car off Worcester, so just a single carriage down.   Not quite a direct replacement of an IET (Intercity Express Train) by a turbo as is happening on the Bedwyn services.  Of course, this reduction might be explained by the need to find that shuttle unit.

Plans for summer 2020 were for an hourly IET from Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington:
- http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt20summer/Table%20125.pdf
For summer 2021, one in three of those services are cut back to Cheltenham Spa to Swindon, saving (I think) one IET diagram
- http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt21summer/Table%20125.pdf
but that has nothing to do with the problems with IET availability unless the Network Rail folks have a reliable Crystal Ball.

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #400 on: June 02, 2021, 08:52:45 am »

Several short forms are reported as being 3 car instead of 5 car, these I suspect to be turbos instead of IETs (Intercity Express Train), resulting in short formation of whatever would have been worked by the turbo.

The 06-06 Bristol Temple meads to Worcester is reported today as being 3 car instead of 5 car for part of the journey. Source is Journey check.

That’s not an IET diagram, as Graham has pointed out.  Let me know if you can see any others...I can’t.
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« Reply #401 on: June 03, 2021, 10:09:52 am »

The 06-06 Bristol Temple meads to Worcester is reported today as being 3 car instead of 5 car for part of the journey. Source is Journey check.

That's a 3 + 2 unit (probably turbo) being replaced by a single unit.  Reading between the lines, the 2 cars which come off at Gloucester at 07:12 normally join a 2 car train that calls there at 07:46 on its way from Worcester Shrub Hill (leaves at 07:07) on its way to Weymouth (11:00).  Today, that's showing as a 3 car off Worcester, so just a single carriage down.   Not quite a direct replacement of an IET (Intercity Express Train) by a turbo as is happening on the Bedwyn services.  Of course, this reduction might be explained by the need to find that shuttle unit.

Plans for summer 2020 were for an hourly IET from Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington:
- http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt20summer/Table%20125.pdf
For summer 2021, one in three of those services are cut back to Cheltenham Spa to Swindon, saving (I think) one IET diagram
- http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt21summer/Table%20125.pdf
but that has nothing to do with the problems with IET availability unless the Network Rail folks have a reliable Crystal Ball.



I noticed this the other week and found it disappointing. We were promised for years an hourly service to London Paddington throughout the day and for many years have endured GWRs (Great Western Railway) go to "problem solving" which involves everyone crams onto a Bristol/South Wales service and change at Swindon whenever there's a slight delay...
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« Reply #402 on: June 05, 2021, 02:03:25 pm »

There seems to be an amount of doing short-forms on the quiet going on. 1L18, the 1032 Carmarthen to Paddington seems to be not gaining its other 5 carriages at Swansea on a regular basis, with this going unreported on JourneyCheck – this is a really bad train to short-form, as it tends to be an exceptionally busy one (more so than the trains starting at Swansea an hour either side) – there's the factor of the extra riders from West Wales, and that this hits Cardiff at 1215 (i.e. lunchtime). And of course, if they don't report it, no-one can plan to avoid it.
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« Reply #403 on: June 05, 2021, 03:25:54 pm »

Is that on Saturday’s you’re referring to?  If so, it was only booked to be a 5-car today, so I guess it wouldn’t get flagged on JC. 

As you say, it makes it hard to plan if you don’t know what the planned length is, and I agree that particular train should really be a 10.
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« Reply #404 on: June 05, 2021, 04:48:12 pm »

That might be it. Perverse really, seeing as that particular train is probably busier on Saturdays than during the week. And no-one seems to have told whatever RTT» (Real Time Trains - website)'s source of data is of that plan:
31.58
Swansea [SWA» (
Swansea - next trains)]
Pathed as Class 80x on diesel from here
Service reverses here, gains coaches here
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