Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 14:15 29 Mar 2024
- Delays at Dover as millions begin Easter getaway
- Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
- KFC Nigeria sorry after disabled diner refused service
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
13:48 Bedwyn to Newbury
14:12 Newbury to Bedwyn
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
14:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:46 Bristol Temple Meads to Warminster
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
13:50 London Paddington to Great Malvern
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
15:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:15 Penzance to London Paddington
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 14:15:47 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[153] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[97] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] Travel for free on the m2 metrobus - Bristol - 4,5,6 April 202...
[41] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[38] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[37] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 49
  Print  
Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 93600 times)
MVR S&T
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 438


View Profile
« Reply #450 on: August 07, 2021, 21:46:16 »

It is rumoured that a fix for the cracks is in place and will, for the GWR (Great Western Railway) units, be carried out at Eastleigh. Other units 'up north'
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #451 on: August 22, 2021, 02:19:55 »

It is rumoured that a fix for the cracks is in place and will, for the GWR (Great Western Railway) units, be carried out at Eastleigh. Other units 'up north'

I wonder what the timescale is ?

Until recently, the scale of cracked or otherwise not available trains has been largely hidden by the pandemic reducing demand, and by staff shortages. The long term timetable reduction also assists in covering up the problem.

I very much doubt that a reliable service of full length trains will return this calendar year, and have doubts about NEXT years holiday season.

I appreciate that IET (Intercity Express Train) supporters will point to recent days with very few short formations, but these seem to be days with dozens of cancellations.

The general poor quality of IETs suggests that even when the cracks are fixed, that something else will go wrong. They are still vulnerable to waves at Dawlish (an "essential requirement") and still fail to couple and uncouple reliably in the specified time (another "essential requirement")

At the beginning of this failed project I suggested that short formed trains/inadequate capacity  would be a problem. This forecast I based not on any detailed technical analysis but simply on first hand experience of other* major new train fleets that reduced capacity either permanently or least for many years.
IET supporters said that this fleet renewal would be different, would be ample, and with "Japanese levels of reliability" and in particular that all peak trains leaving London would be full length. This last has presumably become a future aspiration, or been ditched entirely.

For how many years of the planned 27.5 years service life are routine stock shortages acceptable, before admitting this to be a failed project.

*The three previous major stock renewals are
1) Networkers replaced older slam door DC (Direct Current) EMUs (Electric Multiple Unit). Mixed 4 car and 6 car trains in the rush hour replaced 8 car trains.
2) 4 car and 5 car Voyagers replaced HSTs (High Speed Train) and loco hauled trains on cross country, too short from day one, and still too short many years later.
3) Waterloo to Exeter service reduced from full length loco hauled trains to 3 car units. Badly overcrowded for many years until some trains were eventually lengthened to the same length as the old ones.

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #452 on: August 22, 2021, 09:34:29 »

Off he goes again…
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #453 on: August 22, 2021, 12:34:20 »

Off he goes again…

Do you consider the project to have been a success then ?
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 966


View Profile
« Reply #454 on: August 22, 2021, 12:39:51 »

It is rumoured that a fix for the cracks is in place and will, for the GWR (Great Western Railway) units, be carried out at Eastleigh. Other units 'up north'

The general poor quality of IETs (Intercity Express Train) suggests that even when the cracks are fixed, that something else will go wrong. They are still vulnerable to waves at Dawlish (an "essential requirement") and still fail to couple and uncouple reliably in the specified time (another "essential requirement")


Uncoupling/coupling issues have largely been resolved.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #455 on: August 22, 2021, 13:10:27 »

Indeed.  I can’t remember the last time I heard of a coupling failure.

Do you consider the project to have been a success then ?

Some elements have been a success, others not so.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1450



View Profile
« Reply #456 on: August 22, 2021, 16:02:10 »

More trouble for Hitachi 800 Series vehicles

From Roger Ford's INFORMED SOURCES e-Preview September 2021
( http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2021.08.20.03.26.archive.txt)

Quote
In recent months, readers could have been forgiven for assuming that the name of this column had changed to ‘Fatigue cracking monthly (incorporating Informed Sources). And here we go again.
A further notification was issued in July, following the discovery of cracking in a third location in  Hitachi 800 Series vehicles.  These latest cracks are in the lower face of coupler support plates and confirmed to be another case of stress corrosion, similar to that found in the jacking points.

Auto-couplers on the end vehicles and the fixed couplers between intermediate vehicles are attached to the vehicle by four 30mm diameter bolts which pass through the support plate and the body-shell itself. Subsequent Finite Element Analysis (FEA) has demonstrated that the securing bolts, plus the welding of the support plate to the car body, would prevent detachment or catastrophic failure of the support plate. As a result trains can remain in service with defective support plates, pending a long-term proposal for repair and prevention of further cracking.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #457 on: August 22, 2021, 17:30:40 »

It is rumoured that a fix for the cracks is in place and will, for the GWR (Great Western Railway) units, be carried out at Eastleigh. Other units 'up north'

So just a rumour then, not born out by the post above
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #458 on: August 22, 2021, 18:08:39 »

I was not aware of the THIRD location affected by cracks when I described the IETs (Intercity Express Train) as a failed project.

I did however state that  "The general poor quality of IETs suggests that even when the cracks are fixed, that something else will go wrong."

That was perhaps overly optimistic since in fact something else HAS gone wrong wrong before even one existing crack has been fixed.

With three different areas affected by fatigue cracks already, what are the odds on these units lasting the planned 27.5 years without more faults ?

Hitachi SHOULD be paying significant compensation for the ongoing non-availability of these units. Does anyone know if such payments have actually been received ? Or as I cynically suspect, has some wiggle room been found by Hitachi.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #459 on: August 22, 2021, 18:27:43 »

They will be on a supply contract of set number per day.

Penalties apply if this isn’t achieved.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #460 on: August 22, 2021, 18:34:37 »

I was not aware of the THIRD location affected by cracks when I described the IETs (Intercity Express Train) as a failed project.

I did however state that  "The general poor quality of IETs suggests that even when the cracks are fixed, that something else will go wrong."

That was perhaps overly optimistic since in fact something else HAS gone wrong wrong before even one existing crack has been fixed.

With three different areas affected by fatigue cracks already, what are the odds on these units lasting the planned 27.5 years without more faults ?

Hitachi SHOULD be paying significant compensation for the ongoing non-availability of these units. Does anyone know if such payments have actually been received ? Or as I cynically suspect, has some wiggle room been found by Hitachi.

No, that's not what has happened. This wasn't a new occurrence, after repairs, so it can't tell us anything about what will happen once that is done.

The same kind of cracking has been found in other parts of the vehicle body made in the same way. That is not really surprising; one would expect similar behaviour under similar conditions. The investigation will include a review of the engineering processes involved in producing the trains, leading to a proposed remedy. And for each method considered, short of the most drastic ones, they will look at what can be done to stop the same processes continuing (or at least slow them enough to last a lifetime). I can't see much point in betting on the outcome of that.

Edit: to insert the sentence I forgot
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 22:08:06 by stuving » Logged
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 858



View Profile
« Reply #461 on: August 22, 2021, 20:11:50 »

I was not aware of the THIRD location affected by cracks .....................

No, that's not what has happened. The same kind of cracking has been found in other parts of the vehicle body made in the same way.


Broadgage says:  "THIRD Location"
Stuving says: "other parts of the vehicle body"

What exactly is different between these two statements Huh??      Except that Broadgage has used the singular whereas Stuving has used the plural.(Thinking ahead perhaps ?)

Having worked for a very large Government Dept for a number of years I can already see the way that this will shake out. The Govt will (as usual) totally fail to enforce its contractual rights. If they did Hitachi, and everyone else, would never bid for any work again, and everyone knows it - so the Govt is over a barrel. Eventually an "agreement" will be reached..........delays and disruption will be ignored and the extra costs will be "equally shared" - 80% to the taxpayer and 20% to the contractor.  Think .... Crossrail, HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)), Hinkley Point, Aircraft carriers, Nuclear submarines, Nimrod.... et al.     Been there, seen it, done it !!..............
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #462 on: August 22, 2021, 22:05:49 »

I was not aware of the THIRD location affected by cracks .....................

No, that's not what has happened. The same kind of cracking has been found in other parts of the vehicle body made in the same way.


Broadgage says:  "THIRD Location"
Stuving says: "other parts of the vehicle body"

What exactly is different between these two statements Huh??      Except that Broadgage has used the singular whereas Stuving has used the plural.(Thinking ahead perhaps ?)

Ah - one of my intended sentences seems to have gone missing, for which I must aplogise. I'll have to repair the original.
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7750



View Profile
« Reply #463 on: August 22, 2021, 22:09:42 »

I was not aware of the THIRD location affected by cracks .....................



Broadgage says:  "THIRD Location"
Stuving says: "other parts of the vehicle body"




"Let's call the whole thing off"  Smiley
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #464 on: August 22, 2021, 22:21:28 »

"Let's call the whole thing off"  Smiley

Almost tried that a couple of months ago ... found that rail travel was even harder with all the IETs (Intercity Express Train) parked up while the crack risk was fully evaluated ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 49
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page