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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 55793 times)
Lee
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« Reply #495 on: October 11, 2021, 07:06:22 pm »

There is another problem begining to occur with wrong side door releases.  When the driver initiates a correct side door release, there have been a couple of instances when a door on the wrong side has been released in addition.

Perhaps they should head for the West of England line after all - That would be perfect for Templecombe...
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Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
broadgage
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« Reply #496 on: October 11, 2021, 10:03:30 pm »

And the next one please?

Seats -> Catering -> Bicycles -> Surf Boards -> Cracks ............. now diesel pollution!

Followed by unwanted door releases.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #497 on: October 12, 2021, 07:00:33 am »

There is another problem begining to occur with wrong side door releases.  When the driver initiates a correct side door release, there have been a couple of instances when a door on the wrong side has been released in addition.

That’s a potentially very serious issue, though I’ve not heard any reports of it happening.  Are you able to provide any more information?
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broadgage
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« Reply #498 on: October 12, 2021, 12:54:34 pm »

There is another problem begining to occur with wrong side door releases.  When the driver initiates a correct side door release, there have been a couple of instances when a door on the wrong side has been released in addition.

That’s a potentially very serious issue, though I’ve not heard any reports of it happening.  Are you able to provide any more information?

I agree, this is a most serious failure IF the reports are accurate, which PERHAPS they are not.
I would expect reports in the national press, but not aware of any such.
And howls of outrage from the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers), not aware of that either.

The opening or releasing of doors ONLY on the wrong side, might imply operator error, but the releasing of doors on BOTH sides suggests a serious defect as this AFAIK (as far as I know) cant be done by mistake.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #499 on: February 24, 2022, 11:45:34 am »

Roger Ford has an article in Modern Railways (next month's, presumably) about the repairs now being tested by Hitachi on 802007. This is available to read on line free but rationed. In his e-preview he says:
Quote
800 Series modifications in close-up

Hitachi’s solution to the various fatigue and corrosion cracking problems in the bogie bolster area of the 800 series vehicles began test evaluation in January. We featured a photograph of the test train – 802007 - in our News section last month.

Now, an alert reader has spotted the test train and taken photographs of the modifications. Two vehicles have been fitted, a Driving Pantographs Trailer (DPT) and the adjacent Motor Composite. Different designs of replacement yaw damper brackets have been required for the leading and trailing ends of the DPT. So there is plenty to consider.

To put the 800 series modifications in context, the column also features photographs of other manufactures’ designs for the interface between the yaw damper and the body-shell for 125 mile/h DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit). My thanks to my colleague Tony Miles for providing the illustrations.

Compared with their peers’ designs, Hitachi’s revised solutions, particularly on the DPT, are decidedly chunky. However, it is important to bear in mind that these vehicles are part of the Intercity Express Programme (IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.)) - a 27.5 year Train Service Provision (TSP (Train Service Provider)) deal. So now is the time to make sure that the problems has been cured once and for all!

So the next thing to look out for is the decision to go ahead with repairs (or not!), and then the plan to do it, how many units will be out of the fleet at a time, and how long it's all going to take. And eventually whether it's really sorted the problem.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 10:55:52 pm by stuving » Logged
broadgage
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« Reply #500 on: February 25, 2022, 11:32:35 am »

Note that the reports refers to the IETs (Intercity Express Train) as being "DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit)"  I seem to recall being criticized for referring to them thus, with IET supporters stating that they are not REALLY DMUs but actually something else.
It was suggested that DMU was a negative term that people linked with shorter trains, no catering, and general downgrading.

Moving on from that, I thought that new trains suffered from cracks in three locations, these proposed repairs would only seem to deal with only one such set of cracks.

I presume that hitachi are not paying any significant compensation for the ongoing lack of availability of these trains. Or providing some extra units free of charge to make up for this.

Meanwhile 5 car units instead of full length HSTs (High Speed Train) are the new normal, better get used to it, as Cross Country customers have got used to the reduced capacity of new trains.


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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #501 on: February 25, 2022, 03:35:01 pm »

There is another problem begining to occur with wrong side door releases.  When the driver initiates a correct side door release, there have been a couple of instances when a door on the wrong side has been released in addition.

That’s a potentially very serious issue, though I’ve not heard any reports of it happening.  Are you able to provide any more information?

I have heard reports of such an incident, I can’t remember if it was on GWR (Great Western Railway) or another TOC (Train Operating Company). All doors released correctly on one side of the train but the TMS showed a door had also incorrectly released on the wrong side of the train. I can’t remember if door buttons armed or wether it was just a TMS glitch.
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« Reply #502 on: February 25, 2022, 03:35:48 pm »

Roger Ford has an article in Modern Railways (next month's, presumably) about the repairs now being tested by Hitachi on 802007.

I did see 802007 out and about on a test run in January - you can see the modifications and sensors attached to them which were feeding an army of laptops and boffins information via cables that run through the adjacent doors.
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stuving
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« Reply #503 on: April 07, 2022, 11:04:13 am »

ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) have published their final report, plus related material, on the Hitachi train cracking problems.

This does explain in some detail what happened, both in the organisations involved and in the train bodies. It doesn't address (and probably never could) some of the "why" questions, such as why the corrosion environment for Japanese trains does not lead to stress corrosion cracking. The contribution of track, as worn, and wheels, ditto, to the anti-roll bar and yaw damper motion and forces is also still a big vague.

The outcome is a six-year rolling repair plan for all the affected trains, including some bits (e.g. coupler mountings) where cracking was only found in the later more through investigations.

They also display a rather touching belief that more standards would prevent such things happening.
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broadgage
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« Reply #504 on: April 07, 2022, 05:28:50 pm »

A SIX YEAR rolling program of repairs presumably means ANOTHER six years of short formed trains and reduced services. And that is optimistically presuming that the repair process runs smoothly and to time.

The rush to scrap existing stock means that opportunities to use alternative rolling stock will be very limited.

I cynically assume that Hitachi will not be paying compensation for their failure to meet the promised availability.

And after this multi year rectification process, they will still be nasty suburban units unsuited to inter city routes.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #505 on: April 07, 2022, 08:17:04 pm »

A SIX YEAR rolling program of repairs presumably means ANOTHER six years of short formed trains and reduced services. And that is optimistically presuming that the repair process runs smoothly and to time.

Obviously the more you do at once the shorter the overall time, and vice versa. The practical limit of units that can be under repair at a time is also obvious: one. The programme is described as:
Quote
Hitachi and its industry partners are about to start the major programme of work to repair 1247 Class 80X vehicles and a further 487 Class 385 and 395 vehicles. This recovery programme is expected to take place over the next six years. It is structured to minimise service disruption by taking the minimum number of vehicles out of use at any one time, coordinated with other planned maintenance activity on the vehicles.
That's four and a bit vehicles per week. For some reason the work is going to be done at Arlington Fleet Services at Eastleigh, where there will be two repair lines. Whether that means doing one five-car at a time in a week, or two units at once and taking longer, I can only guess. Further details revealed are:
Quote
The programme will address trainsets containing vehicles with cracks first, prioritising those with cracks in the vicinity of the yaw damper. All vehicles, whether cracked or not, will be modified, with the programme expected to be complete in 2028.

Quote
The rush to scrap existing stock means that opportunities to use alternative rolling stock will be very limited.

True, but that's the world of fashion, isn't it?

Quote
I cynically assume that Hitachi will not be paying compensation for their failure to meet the promised availability.

I wonder. Obviously the whole repair programme is Hitachi's cost, and they have not been paid for trains not presented to the TOC (Train Operating Company) as required in the TARA (Train Availability and Reliability Agreement). But clearly a refund of the lease cost per diagram is inadequate compensation; it's not as if GWR (Great Western Railway) can whip out their StockShop app and hire an alternative unit for the day. I imagine the TOCs (or in practice DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) would have a legal case for breach of contract. That would depend on what's in the TARA and MARA (Master Availability and Reliability Agreement), and I suspect in the blacked out bits.
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broadgage
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« Reply #506 on: April 08, 2022, 05:06:22 am »

Had most of the HSTs (High Speed Train) not been scrapped in such a hurry, then alternative trains WOULD have been available.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #507 on: June 13, 2022, 08:56:54 am »

Presumably hitachi staff are not going on strike.
And will therefore be able to use the strike days to catch up on routine maintenance.
Over 30 short formations again today.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #508 on: June 13, 2022, 10:23:21 am »

There were over-running engineering works in the BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) area earlier this morning which may well have affected the Hitachi depot
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broadgage
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« Reply #509 on: June 29, 2022, 08:31:45 am »

Nearly 40 half length IETs (Intercity Express Train) today, and not one comment on these forums. Presumably this is the new normal and not newsworthy. "new trains are shorter, get used to it"

05:23 London Paddington to Swansea due 08:58
05:51 Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour due 08:27
06:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 08:29
06:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:53
07:31 Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:27
07:33 Severn Beach to Weston-Super-Mare due 09:00
08:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:35
08:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 09:18
08:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:05
08:45 Great Malvern to Westbury due 11:32
09:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:39
09:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach due 10:23
09:10 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth due 09:39
09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 12:45
09:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:12
09:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:00
09:59 Oxford to London Paddington due 10:54
10:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:36
10:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:08
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:38
11:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 12:13
12:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:39
12:31 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:06
12:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:31
13:02 Oxford to London Paddington due 13:54
13:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:35
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:36
14:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:07
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:07
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:39
15:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:14
16:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:35
16:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:14
16:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 19:12
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:40
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:08
18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:17
19:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:34
20:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 23:50
0 Catering Updates
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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