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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 53857 times)
bobm
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« Reply #510 on: June 29, 2022, 09:42:32 am »

Nearly 40 half length IETs (Intercity Express Train) today, and not one comment on these forums. Presumably this is the new normal and not newsworthy. "new trains are shorter, get used to it"

05:23 London Paddington to Swansea due 08:58
05:51 Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour due 08:27
06:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 08:29
06:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 09:53
07:31 Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:27
07:33 Severn Beach to Weston-Super-Mare due 09:00

08:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:35
08:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 09:18
08:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:05
08:45 Great Malvern to Westbury due 11:32
09:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:39
09:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach due 10:23
09:10 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth due 09:39
09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 12:45
09:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:12
09:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:00
09:59 Oxford to London Paddington due 10:54
10:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:36
10:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:08
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:38
11:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 12:13
12:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:39
12:31 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:06
12:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:31
13:02 Oxford to London Paddington due 13:54
13:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:35
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:36
14:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:07
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:07
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:39
15:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:14
16:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:35
16:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:14
16:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 19:12
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:40
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:08
18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:17
19:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:34
20:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 23:50
0 Catering Updates


A long list agreed - but not all of those are IET services.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #511 on: June 29, 2022, 10:14:04 am »

And, as usual, the list is now inaccurate.
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #512 on: June 29, 2022, 10:33:20 am »

Nearly 40 half length IETs (Intercity Express Train) today, and not one comment on these forums. Presumably this is the new normal and not newsworthy. "new trains are shorter, get used to it"

From a passenger POV, the length of the train doesn't really matter - it's an implementation detail. What matters is whether you can get a seat or not.
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bobm
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« Reply #513 on: June 29, 2022, 10:38:45 am »

Indeed.....

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bobm
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« Reply #514 on: June 29, 2022, 11:19:29 am »

By chance there is a photo taken aboard the 10:00 ex Bristol Temple Meads on Twitter.

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #515 on: June 29, 2022, 11:33:07 am »

Nearly 40 half length IETs (Intercity Express Train) today, and not one comment on these forums. Presumably this is the new normal and not newsworthy. "new trains are shorter, get used to it"

From a passenger POV, the length of the train doesn't really matter - it's an implementation detail. What matters is whether you can get a seat or not.

It's rather like mass cancellations every Sunday......initially it's so poor it's shocking, but gradually poor service becomes the normal expectation.

Great environment to assist with the resurgence  of COVID on the short formed train pictured too.
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plymothian
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« Reply #516 on: June 29, 2022, 12:31:07 pm »

Worth noting that the first Class 80x has only just gone in for remedial work to repair the cracking problem.
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Mark A
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« Reply #517 on: June 29, 2022, 02:40:16 pm »

From a passenger POV, the length of the train doesn't really matter - it's an implementation detail. What matters is whether you can get a seat or not.

Partly agree as this is indeed wildly dependent on implementation - which includes subtleties like "Avoid booking passengers into seats in the part of the train from which they cannot alight at their destination' and 'Activate the seat reservations before the train is at the platform at its starting station'.

There's also the instances when one half of a ten car set is heavily loaded and the other half with plenty of space - though as passengers have learned through experience at say Paddington, have they become more adept at putting themselves aboard on the half that has seats available? It's really difficult for the TOC (Train Operating Company) to hit the balance.

Underlying this, travellers experiencing loading factors approaching or exceeding the seating capacity in any part of a run in a 5 car set will send the message that the system is capacity constrained, which will inhibit future growth in passenger numbers as people with a choice will use another travel mode - and others who are travelling with family, children or who have a disability may be heavily discouraged from using rail. With a capacity of just 290 or is it 254 seated in standard, an hourly 5 car IET (Intercity Express Train) on its own isn't a great heavy lifter.

At what level of occupancy does a TOC regard a long distance train as full to capacity? That's probably a different figure from the one at which a passenger would consider it full.

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« Reply #518 on: June 29, 2022, 02:53:29 pm »

There's also the instances when one half of a ten car set is heavily loaded and the other half with plenty of space - though as passengers have learned through experience at say Paddington, have they become more adept at putting themselves aboard on the half that has seats available? It's really difficult for the TOC (Train Operating Company) to hit the balance.

This is nothing new and not unique to ten car sets.  It happens often on 9-car sets, and used to happen often on HST (High Speed Train)'s where passengers are/were able walk through the whole train.  I frequently see standing room only in 'J' and on the same train one man and his dog sat in 'A'. 

It even happens when crew make announcements pretty much pleading with people to move down the train...obviously a human behaviour thing.
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« Reply #519 on: June 29, 2022, 02:56:29 pm »

And, as usual, the list is now inaccurate.
The 12:31 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads was actually 9 coaches - I was on it.
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« Reply #520 on: June 29, 2022, 03:43:19 pm »

This is nothing new and not unique to ten car sets.  It happens often on 9-car sets, and used to happen often on HST (High Speed Train)'s where passengers are/were able walk through the whole train.  I frequently see standing room only in 'J' and on the same train one man and his dog sat in 'A'.

1. It's interesting to see in places loadings along a train showing up on the platform displays showing where the space is. I recall it on Thameslink - so rarely on an an IET (Intercity Express Train) these days not sure if we have such a system like this on our London trains

2. Wasn't the "10 car scheme" on the Southern out of Cannon Street and Charing Cross to Hayes, Dartford and Sevenoaks something of a flop because the extra two carriages didn't get many passengers as they were so far from the terminal barriers (some bright spark suggesting that the two carriages should have been added at the London end!)

3.  Grin I could not help wondering if the dog in your example was smelly or agressive (I know not - that it's a serious point)
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« Reply #521 on: June 29, 2022, 04:01:56 pm »

And, as usual, the list is now inaccurate.
The 12:31 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads was actually 9 coaches - I was on it.

I think two or three of the diagrams are now back to full length, so a dozen or so trains.  That’s not to say it’s not a bad day for IET (Intercity Express Train) availability, just like we have good and bad days for DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) availability as well.

Everyone can now check formations for themselves on RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) of course (100x more accurate than Journeycheck) so I won’t bother with a list.
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« Reply #522 on: June 30, 2022, 08:46:50 am »

Another bad IET (Intercity Express Train) day today. 31 short formations in total, of which 28 look to be half capacity IETs.
And AFAIK (as far as I know) there were a few more short formations earlier today that have completed their journey and are therefore no longer shown.

And yes I am aware that IET advocates will point out that some might actually run full length, and that the odd bad day is to be expected.


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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #523 on: June 30, 2022, 09:50:37 am »

1. It's interesting to see in places loadings along a train showing up on the platform displays showing where the space is. I recall it on Thameslink - so rarely on an an IET (Intercity Express Train) these days not sure if we have such a system like this on our London trains

3.  Grin I could not help wondering if the dog in your example was smelly or agressive (I know not - that it's a serious point)

Loadings are available on the GWR (Great Western Railway) app (see Bob’s post from yesterday).  Perhaps in time that information will be available on the departure screens at stations?  Though I’m not sure it’ll be much use in terms of a live boarding situation at an origin station like Paddington.  Better for providing information at points en-route I’d have thought?

An advantage of the IETs over HSTs (High Speed Train) is that crew can use the passenger count facility and the live CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) monitors to check where space is available and advise passengers.  Though like I said it’s rare for many to take heed of such advice.

The dog in my example was beautifully behaved.  Wink
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bobm
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« Reply #524 on: June 30, 2022, 10:05:11 am »

Veering slightly off topic, how are the loadings calculated?   Are there sensors as people pass through the doors or does it base things on the average weight of a passenger?   I am just thinking if someone boards in coach C but then walks through to coach B, how are the statistics calculated?
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