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Author Topic: Problems with IET trains from April 2021  (Read 56008 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #525 on: June 30, 2022, 10:20:02 am »

Providing loading information at stations might be useful, but is not an acceptable substitute for running full length trains.

If such information IS provided then will passengers with "booked train only" tickets be allowed to use a latter train at no extra expense ?
And if travel on a later GWR (Great Western Railway) service IS allowed, what about connections onto non GWR services. Will Cross Country for example  allow passengers to use a later than booked train if the passenger misses the booked train due to overcrowding on the GWR service.

And what about travel EARLIER than otherwise permitted ?
Passenger has a ticket valid only after 09-30 and arrives at 09-00, in plenty of time for the 09-36 departure. At the station, the departure screen shows the 09-36 service as being full. The 09-18 train has plenty of room. Will the holder of the "only valid after 09-30" ticket be allowed on the 09-18 service under these conditions ?

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #526 on: June 30, 2022, 10:44:24 am »

Veering slightly off topic, how are the loadings calculated?   Are there sensors as people pass through the doors or does it base things on the average weight of a passenger?   I am just thinking if someone boards in coach C but then walks through to coach B, how are the statistics calculated?

The system was supplied by Petards, handily located in Gateshead. Their standard product is eyeTrain; this one may be the same or maybe customised. It has infrared sensors above each door that count every person going through - or at least try to. Obviously there is scope for error and ambiguity, especially with children and large dogs!

One thing that occurs to me is that there must be a "reset to zero" button to be pushed when the train is know to be empty (possibly by a software finger). When that happens, whatever count is present provides evidence the accumulated error. So somewhere there should be a log of those numbers - it would be interesting to know what they are!
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broadgage
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« Reply #527 on: June 30, 2022, 10:45:28 am »

Veering slightly off topic, how are the loadings calculated?   Are there sensors as people pass through the doors or does it base things on the average weight of a passenger?   I am just thinking if someone boards in coach C but then walks through to coach B, how are the statistics calculated?

I think it is done by measuring the total weight of each vehicle, and then assuming an average weight per passenger.
Probably assuming small healthy Japanese people and not overweight pie munching brits (pies not obtained on board of course, alternative pie vendors are available)

Edited to add, that it is done by actual counting and NOT by weight, see later posts.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 11:28:50 am by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #528 on: June 30, 2022, 11:14:18 am »

Stuving is correct and Broadgage is incorrect.

Crew can do a reset to zero at any point they wish and as the train completes its journey it is usually reset to zero automatically.  What used to be an unreliable system is now much better, though isn't foolproof as it only takes a sensor to fail for the count to become inaccurate.
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« Reply #529 on: June 30, 2022, 11:24:08 am »

Another bad IET (Intercity Express Train) day today. 31 short formations in total, of which 28 look to be half capacity IETs.

And yes I am aware that IET advocates will point out that some might actually run full length, and that the odd bad day is to be expected.

Yes indeed, the following departures from Paddington are currently listed as 5 vice 9/10 on JourneyCheck:

08:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 11:31
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:50
11:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:17
13:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:35
13:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:08
15:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 18:33
16:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:21
17:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:40
17:32 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:14
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25
22:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 02:16

In reality, the following departures from Paddington are short formed:

09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:50
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth

So that's 2 instead of 11.
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bobm
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« Reply #530 on: June 30, 2022, 11:26:55 am »

..and the 09:37 - which I plan to be on tomorrow - is showing on the app as lightly loaded despite being reduced to five coaches.
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« Reply #531 on: July 13, 2022, 08:12:17 am »

Some 45 short formed trains today...none of which are IET (Intercity Express Train)'s.  Wink
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grahame
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« Reply #532 on: July 13, 2022, 08:41:39 am »

Some 45 short formed trains today...none of which are IET (Intercity Express Train)'s.  Wink

 Cheesy Grin

A symptom, perhaps, that we have a fair weather railway in which resources are pared down to a minimum.   If nothing goes wrong, there are enough resources to cover the advertised / contracted provision, but as soon as there's a glitch with IETs, signallers, Turbos, Train managers, booking office staff,  train drivers, or people who can fix points, things go "pear shaped" - sometimes VERY pear shaped!

In reality, short formed trains (IMHO (in my humble opinion)) get relatively high publicity - some trains undoubtedly overcrowd as a result, but many don't; contraflow workings, and service tails, for example.  Cancellations / short workings far more important - looking back at yesterday, I note that only one train out of the six scheduled to serve Melksham after 4 p.m. actually did so ...
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« Reply #533 on: August 01, 2022, 04:36:09 pm »

Eight shortformed trains listed on JourneyCheck out of Paddington for the remainder of the day.  In reality only one of them still is: 17:02 Paddington>Bristol TM(resolve).
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #534 on: August 05, 2022, 12:12:35 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.
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grahame
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« Reply #535 on: August 05, 2022, 12:46:00 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

I wonder if shortforming the 17:04 or 18:04 (both 10 cars today) would be even worse.  Haven't most people escaped London by 7 p.m., or do people hold back and use this train because of fare differentials?
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« Reply #536 on: August 05, 2022, 12:47:32 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

Good job it isn’t shortformed then:  https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W43522/2022-08-05/detailed#allox_id=0
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RichardB
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« Reply #537 on: August 05, 2022, 12:54:07 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

I wonder if shortforming the 17:04 or 18:04 (both 10 cars today) would be even worse.  Haven't most people escaped London by 7 p.m., or do people hold back and use this train because of fare differentials?

Certainly, from the few times I've taken it, the 17 04 has been pretty quiet once the Pewsey contingent have got off.   That's the train with the most restrictions.  The 18 04 has fewer restrictions and is hence a fair bit busier but not like the late morning/middle of the day trains (again, in my limited experience).   Probably the way the stock works means the only choice for shortforming is unfortunately the 19 04.   
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bobm
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« Reply #538 on: August 05, 2022, 01:11:17 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

Good job it isn’t shortformed then:  https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W43522/2022-08-05/detailed#allox_id=0

Which also means three others currently shown as shortformed on Journeycheck are in fact nine carriages.  13:00 and 17:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington and the 15:02 in the other direction. All formed with 800 310.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #539 on: August 05, 2022, 06:41:37 pm »

Of all the trains to shortform on a Friday, this is probably the worst......

Facilities on the 19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35.

This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

Good job it isn’t shortformed then:  https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W43522/2022-08-05/detailed#allox_id=0

GWR (Great Western Railway) Journey check still saying it's shortformed but good news if you're correct.
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