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Author Topic: Return of restrictions next month?  (Read 4998 times)
Lee
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2021, 08:52:35 »

The driving licence analogy is a good example of false equivalence.

It's also an excellent example of the habit of putting the individuals "rights" before collective responsibility.

Those of us fortunate enough to obtain tickets for England's Autumn Internationals at Twickenham have already been advised that evidence of vaccination may be required to secure admission (as well as the "ambitiously" priced tickets!). I don't hear too many complaints, people can be pretty pragmatic when they can see the greater good.

My cousin's wife is a Doctor and recently explained the process of mechanical ventilation to me. Carrying a piece of paper or details on a smartphone  seems a remarkably benign alternative - look it up if you don't believe me, it'll make your skin crawl a bit more than having to show a piece of paper - and even if it only saves a few people that awful experience it's worthwhile.

I won't repeat here her views on those who are refusing to be vaccinated as she is a lady and this is a civilised forum!

The driving licence analogy is not an example of "false equivalence" at all - It is a perfectly reasonable alternative way of looking at it, based on a premise that another member - not me - brought into play. The fact is that fundamental rights that previous generations died for, and that our generations have taken for granted since are being suspended at present, and however well-meaning the reasons for that may be, the decision to do that should absolutely be open to regular scrutiny.

And your answer is also a good example of someone not fully reading what the previous poster has written. I have made it very clear that I accept the need for it in the current health context, and I take any inference otherwise as a personal insult.
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2021, 09:51:09 »

Quite a lot of the latest ONS» (Office for National Statistics - website) data:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals
seems to indicate that further lockdowns and/or imposition of restrictions would be unnecessary. While I accept that this picture can change very rapidly I take the view that the massive increase in infections / hospital admissions / deaths predicted by SAGE has not happened, even though school, college & university populations have pretty much completely returned to 'normal' operation, so lets just leave these decisions to the individual.

The ONS data show that the vast majority of new infections are in the 0-24 years age group while hospital admissions & deaths are much higher in the 65+ group. Also related deaths are much higher in the unvaccinated group. Exactly as expected.

I returned to watching live rugby at Sandy Park as of the 11th September. Early season gatherings of around the 10,000 mark have not yet caused any significant issues.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2021, 10:06:01 »



I returned to watching live rugby at Sandy Park as of the 11th September. Early season gatherings of around the 10,000 mark have not yet caused any significant issues.


......let's hope the results improve!!!  Smiley
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grahame
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2021, 21:32:10 »

Reports of concerns on this thread have come to me - been on a project, so not really been around and reading much today.  So reading in (somewhat) now and perhaps too late in the day. 

Strikes me that everyone contributing appreiates the need - short term - for something akin to a "covid passport" as a far preferable way forward than some of the alternative horrors. And everyone understands there's a restriction of freedoms in that which really is only acceptable for as short a period as possible.

It's got heated - a passion of debate has become personal, and I suspect that was not deliberate on any side.  I am left with the interesting job of helping us all move on without drawing fire onto myself, potentially from multiple directions.  My fingers are crossed as I simply suggest we move on in the morning, letting "yesterday" feel a long way behind us.
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2021, 09:52:01 »

......let's hope the results improve!!!  Smiley

Happily the did just that, possibly temporarily, yesterday.  Smiley
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DavidT
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2021, 10:32:20 »


When considering whether Britain does have the worst infection rate in Europe it is important to look at the number of tests being carried out. Clearly, the more tests the more cases will be uncovered.  The latest statistics, from Worldometer,  show the UK (United Kingdom) has carried out 4,457,868 tests per million population. France has carried out about half as many -- 2,188,303 -- Italy fewer still at 1,547,649, and, perhaps surprisingly, Germany is well down at only 871,955. I am not at all arguing for fewer tests, just suggesting that our rate of testing skews our infection rate in comparison to others.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2021, 11:13:39 »

Indeed.  Any direct comparisons between countries, or attempts at forecasting with any degree of accuracy are largely arbitrary.
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2021, 13:21:38 »


When considering whether Britain does have the worst infection rate in Europe it is important to look at the number of tests being carried out. Clearly, the more tests the more cases will be uncovered.  The latest statistics, from Worldometer,  show the UK (United Kingdom) has carried out 4,457,868 tests per million population..........

4.5 tests per head of population sounds a lot, but when you consider the number of professions that currently require folk to take two (at least) Lateral Flow tests per week, that number is not that huge.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2021, 05:43:26 »

The Welsh Parliament has voted to introduce a COVID passport for nightclubs and sporting events.....


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/05/wales-introduces-compulsory-covid-pass-for-nightclubs-and-sports-events
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Marlburian
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2021, 17:47:58 »

Indeed.  Any direct comparisons between countries, or attempts at forecasting with any degree of accuracy are largely arbitrary.

Very early on in the COVID saga, I got irritated with the media's bald comparisons between countries that took no account of population sizes, amount of testing etc. An early example was comparing the UK (United Kingdom) (population 67 million) with Sweden (population 10 million). A local news website was inclined to do this when comparing local-authority areas.
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