Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 12:55 29 Mar 2024
* Delays at Dover as millions begin Easter getaway
- Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
- KFC Nigeria sorry after disabled diner refused service
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
13:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
13:21 Newbury to Bedwyn
13:48 Bedwyn to Newbury
14:12 Newbury to Bedwyn
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
14:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance
14:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 13:11:01 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[153] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[97] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] Travel for free on the m2 metrobus - Bristol - 4,5,6 April 202...
[41] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[38] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[37] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Shh ... it's an ekranoplan, isn't it?  (Read 1737 times)
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« on: June 15, 2021, 23:18:52 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South news (Paul Clifton) was doing a piece about Brittany Ferries planning to use ground effect craft called seagliders (not meant as a proper name, though BF (Brake First (carriage)) used it as such). This is apparently going to give them a route to decarbonise, while also going much faster - scarily so, at 180 mph! This is from BBC Hampshire & IoW:

Quote
Cross-Channel 'flying ferries' concept revealed for Portsmouth route

"Flying ferries" could soon be crossing the English Channel as part of radical new plans.

Brittany Ferries said its proposed craft "foils like a hydrofoil, hovers like a hovercraft and flies like a plane... with the comfort and convenience of a ferry".

The all-electric, sea-skimming gliders are set to travel from Portsmouth to Cherbourg in 40 minutes.

The 150-capacity craft could be ready for commercial passengers by 2025.

The zero-emission vehicles, developed in the United States by Boston-based start-up Regional Electric Ground Effect Naval Transport (Regent), are expected to travel at speeds of up to 180 mph (290 kph).

They will be about six times faster than conventional ferries, with a battery range of about 180 miles (290 km).
Sea-skimming Sea Glidersimage copyrightBrittany Ferries/Regent
image captionThe sea gliders will be about six times faster than conventional ferries

They rise on foils following their departure from a port, before taking off and riding a cushion of air a few metres above the water's surface for the rest of the journey.


My immediate thought was that the Russians have been making the things for decades, with the name (again, common) ekranoplan. But neither REGENT nor BF want to mention that. The BBC mention just one of them, but not that many designs were built of several subtypes.

The hints from the Russian experience are that these things pose a difficult hull design problem (which modern theory and simulation could perhaps overcome), take huge power to reach lift-off speed, and that they don't like big waves, for a variety of reasons. And 180 mph at that height, across the channel? There's a lot more that needs to not be bumped into there than on the Caspian Sea!
Logged
eXPassenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 547


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2021, 18:06:43 »

My first thought was to check the date.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2021, 20:25:05 »

My first thought was to check the date.

Mine too - but it is a genuine effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics).  Perhaps this is why the Spruce Goose managed to take off but not gain much elevation?

If this were to come about, would we see the old seaplane stations being re-opened?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1532



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2021, 20:42:13 »

Quote
If this were to come about, would we see the old seaplane stations being re-opened?

...and would a proposal to extend the Fawley branch to a re-opened Calshot help the case for its re-opening? Grin
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2021, 17:16:39 »

Once upolly tito, these were described as "ground effect vehicles", because they rely upon, well, the ground effect. I experienced this to the best when learning how to land a light aircraft without flaps. At roughly the height of the width of the wings, an aircraft tends to float on a cushion of air forced down by the wings, then up by the floor. Without the flaps to disrupt it, the little Cherokee I was learning to fly didn't seem to want to land, floating gracefully along the runway as I lifted the nose gently to lose speed.  This isn't an accurate description of the aerodynamics involved, but works as a simple illustration. It is very good fun, although it probably isn't in a big plane in an emergency. Helicopters experience a similar effect, but with differing results.

The effect has been known almost since powered flight began. The wing operates more efficiently in ground effect, and there is a lot less friction to overcome. The US, with German engineers,  and the Soviet Union did a lot of research in the 1960s with an eye to the military, but only the Soviets took it forward in a big way, getting to choose the name. They knew ground effect as "screen effect", and I am told that ekran is screen in Russian, like écran in French. So it's a "screen plane".

I believe the tricky bit is the transition from surface to just above surface, but that once that is cracked, it works well. I've never been one one, so don't take my word for it. Rough seas are a problem, but they are for hovercraft, which I can verify from personal experience.
Logged

Now, please!
WSW Frome
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 180


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2021, 12:14:49 »

There have been a number of internet posts/articles on the former Soviet projects on ekranoplans over the past 6-12 months. These can be located by Mr Google. These were prompted by the movement of the last surviving large example from a military base to a museum close to the city of Makhachkala in Dagestan (Russia) on the Caspian Sea. They had trouble bringing the craft onshore and it was stuck on the beach for a while. Let us hope they succeeded eventually.

Some of these articles also covered the smaller type craft where some work still seems ongoing in Russia on a more commercial basis. Such work is/was done on inland waterways and promoted by the main "designer" of this type of craft.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2021, 12:33:01 »

Interesting. Have vaguely heard of it under the Russian name but not understood (even vaguely) how it works until now (which I do very vaguely). As for the idea of crossing the Channel at 180mph, when they say it would be six times faster than current ferries, is this meant to imply those ferries travel at 30mph? Or simply that in practice the ekranoplan would be sixt times faster but not that at it would actually travel at 180mph (so maybe the ferries do 15 and it would do 90, for instance)?
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page