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Author Topic: UK government's Transport decarbonisation plan  (Read 13546 times)
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #120 on: January 08, 2022, 09:02:38 pm »

Looking wider than the UK (United Kingdom), but staying with decarbonisation and transport (though not necessarily of transport) – according to figures from UNCTAD, 40% of global shipping by tonnage is fossil fuels: oil, gas and coal.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nishandegnarain/2020/09/25/loud-calls-for-global-shipping-to-ditch-fossil-fuels-and-meet-climate-goals/

This means that decarbonisation of energy (even without decarbonisation of shipping) brings the bonus of fewer ships, and therefore also less pollution of seas, less sonic disturbance for whales, etc. Something similar will apply on land with fewer oil tankers and pipelines needed. And of course fewer refineries.
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broadgage
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« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2022, 11:50:11 pm »

And of course accidents result from the transport of fossil fuels, ships sink, rail tankers crash or derail, road tankers run of the road or collide, pipelines leak, etc.

Less use of fossil fuels should result in fewer such accidents.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2022, 09:53:38 am »

Exactly.
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TonyK
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« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2022, 05:17:19 pm »

And of course accidents result from the transport of fossil fuels, ships sink, rail tankers crash or derail, road tankers run of the road or collide, pipelines leak, etc.

Less use of fossil fuels should result in fewer such accidents.


This has some similarity to the railway and coal. Pre-Beeching, we had a lot of steam trains. Many of those were employed in moving coal around the country to fuel the steam strains. We also at that time used an awful lot of coal to make electricity and to heat homes. Then, like a wet Jed Clampett, we struck oil and gas in the North Sea, and installed gas fires and central heating across the land. The coal trains became much less frequent, and the coal depots beside railway lines started to shrink, then vanished altogether. I still recall seeing the coal train heading for Wapping Wharf in Bristol, finishing as late as 1987.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2022, 09:17:12 pm »

Curious there. What happened using coal on Wapping Wharf? I'm sure there wasn't a power station or anything like that and although I vaguely think the docks were still in commercial use until around 1987, it seems unlikely it would have been for anything as bulk as coal. Or was it?
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TonyK
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« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2022, 12:51:41 pm »

It was the point of delivery for the many coal merchants who ruined their shoulders and ankles by carrying half-hundredweight bags on their shoulders daily, delivering to houses and businesses across the city. Smaller yards were in Nailsea, Long Ashton, Montpelier, Filton and others. The yards, shrinking yearly, lasted longer than the coal trains. Deliveries were by the occasional tipper lorry as trade dwindled.

There are a few clickable pictures in the Harbour Railway Blog
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broadgage
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« Reply #126 on: January 14, 2022, 02:31:28 am »


It looks as though someone agrees with our negative thoughts about imported wood chips being green or renewable.

Climate change activists have boarded and halted a train carrying wood chips to Drax power station.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-59267244

I am normally quick to condemn stunts by ego warriors, but I won't be quite so harsh this time. This is a particularly nasty bit of greenwashing for profit, and deserves a much higher profile than it has amongst the general public. Drax burns some 8 million tonnes of wood annually. If it replaced every tree immediately, how many years would it be before the carbon released by burning is extracted from the air? I have seen reports that suggest a century to break even on the carbon front. I don't agree with trespass on the railway or getting in the way of the smooth running of trains, but Drax needs to stop. The current subsidy of over £800 million pa to burn forests is due for renewal in 2027, and Drax's propaganda machine is busy paving the way to a new deal. Hopefully, by that time the government will have decided against renewal. The previous Theresa May administration was getting cold feet about it, but proved largely ineffectual in everything else.

It seems that doubts as to the merits of large scale biomass burning are growing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59546281

News report.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Witham Bobby
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« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2022, 03:52:43 pm »

It was the point of delivery for the many coal merchants who ruined their shoulders and ankles by carrying half-hundredweight bags on their shoulders daily, delivering to houses and businesses across the city. Smaller yards were in Nailsea, Long Ashton, Montpelier, Filton and others. The yards, shrinking yearly, lasted longer than the coal trains. Deliveries were by the occasional tipper lorry as trade dwindled.

There are a few clickable pictures in the Harbour Railway Blog

Our coalman used to deliver in sacks of a full hundredweight, none of these 56lb half-measures!  Was ours a supercoalman, or yours a lightweight?  Wink

As late as the late 1970s the coal for Evesham used to arrive in 12T mineral wagons, to be shovelled out by the coalmen and later bagged-up for distribution around the towns and villages.  Weighed out on a big balance type scale.  They used environmentally sound re-usable sacks, of course.

They'd come up into the 'box at Evesham for a brew, occasionally.  Some signalmen wouldn't allow it, and I don't think any of them permitted the grubby ones to take a seat.
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broadgage
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« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2022, 05:11:59 pm »

Coal used to be delivered in sacks each containing one hundredweight. These were generaly open at the top and intended for re-use. The weight of the sack could be significant and was meant to be indicated on a small brass or copper disk riveted to the sack.
A UK (United Kingdom) hundredweight was 112 pounds weight. A USA hundredweight was 100 pounds weight, sometimes called a short hundredweight, versus the long hundredweight used in the UK.

Therefore if the weight of the empty sack was marked as being 4 pounds, the full bag of coal should weigh 116 pounds. A tolerance of one pound was permitted to allow for the sack wearing and becoming lighter in weight, or becoming impregnated with coal dust and therefore heavier.

The coal merchant was expected to tip the bags of coal into a ground level coal bunker, or tip the coal into a ground level manhole cover that led into a basement coal store.

These days, the handling of one hundredweight bags is either prohibited or at least very strongly discouraged.

Most coal and coal derived patent fuels are these days supplied in 25 kilo bags to ease handling, a move to 20 kilo bags is likely as people get weaker.

Large volumes of coal may be delivered loose in a tipper truck. It should be weighed at the depot by a weighbridge or other suitable means.

BTW (by the way), some old and still extant law or regulation requires that the customer be given a delivery note or invoice that specifies the weight and type of fuel BEFORE IT IS UNLOADED.
The accepted wording is "the delivery that you are about to receive contains XXX kilos of [insert grade or description of fuel]"

For example my last delivery note reads "the delivery that you are about to receive contains 20 bags, each 25 kilos of best Welsh anthracite small nuts. Total 500 kilos. AND 4 bags each 25 kilos of best Welsh anthracite beans, total 100 kilos"

It is an offence to deliver the coal and THEN supply the delivery note.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #129 on: January 16, 2022, 02:32:48 pm »


Our coalman used to deliver in sacks of a full hundredweight, none of these 56lb half-measures!  Was ours a supercoalman, or yours a lightweight?  Wink


Neither. My memory was the lightweight. I was going to say a full hundredweight, but the logical part of my brain said "That can't be right!". It was though, and coalmen of that era tended to have misshapen ankles as a result.

I vaguely recall a TV advert with Bob Carolgees, where his mum ran off with the coalman. There was a brief shot of him walking past the window with her suitcase on his shoulder, which made me laugh.
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stuving
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« Reply #130 on: January 16, 2022, 03:39:50 pm »

I certainly remember coal deliveries in the 1950s, and the coalman with that leather hooded cape thing on his back. In our suburb the 1930s terraces had access for coal via the alley round the back, and with long gardens it was some distance to go even with the coal bunker down the far end - 70 m easily. Ours on the end was easier, with the coal bunker in the "garage" (a wartime improvisations that was falling apart even then).

The routine was for the coalman to back up to the  lorry, where another man on the back (maybe the driver) would manoeuvre a sack from transit position (leaning in ranks against the front board of the platform) to the edge where it could be transferred onto  his back. I never did really understand how it was supported, and held upright enough with one hand that only a moderate amount fell out on the way. Something like this.
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broadgage
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« Reply #131 on: January 16, 2022, 04:52:11 pm »

The national coal board, large gas works, and some larger coal merchants were among the last major users of coal burning road vehicles. It was considered that these industries should show faith in UK (United Kingdom) produced coal rather than using imported oil.

Some later steam road vehicles were quite modern and equipped with pneumatic tyres, electric lighting, power brakes and sometimes even power steering. Some were used into 1960s.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #132 on: January 16, 2022, 09:05:46 pm »

Coal in the '60s was definitely in the hundredweight. It was the unit of manhandlable sacks.  1974 at the tender age of 14 I was dragging cwt bags of cement around the building site: "hug it like a woman" declared the boss - remember this was Life on Mars era. I was 16 before I could finally shoulder a bag.

He used to laugh at me struggling - remember this was Life on Mars era.

I joked that I bet he couldn't carry two ... (Smart, wicked and devious young man).

He managed it - just - one on each shoulder - for his honour was at stake.

But my, he was purple, and I thought he was about to die.

Tom, my first boss was a Covid victim and I miss him.
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« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2022, 06:59:13 am »


These days, the handling of one hundredweight bags is either prohibited or at least very strongly discouraged.

Most coal and coal derived patent fuels are these days supplied in 25 kilo bags to ease handling, a move to 20 kilo bags is likely as people get weaker.



The 25 kg single person lift and that is without moving it very far and the likely reduction to 20 kg has nothing to do with people becoming weaker; it is all about reducing the long term skeletal and muscular injuries caused by such work.

My grandfather who worked as a labour / hod carrier and other similar work end up being crippled from his mid 50's because of his work
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« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2022, 02:52:56 pm »

The last coalman I knew to talk to over a beer walked on his insteps. Some former colleagues showed up at the pub one day, all instantly recognisable from the same malady. On happier reminiscences, I recall being asked, aged about 8, to post a card to the coalman one summer morning, for my dad's annual filling of the coal cellar while it was cheap. The coalman arrived that afternoon.
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