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Author Topic: Tram crash - Sheffield, 23 July 2021  (Read 1200 times)
TonyK
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« on: July 23, 2021, 04:40:50 pm »

News reaches me from The Star newspaper, of a tram crash in Sheffield. It seems there was a collision between a tram and a HGV. One passenger was taken to hospital with "minor" injuries. No-one else was hurt, thank goodness.

Quote
Woman taken to hospital after tram and HGV crash in Sheffield
A woman has been taken to hospital following a collision involving a tram and another vehicle on a busy Sheffield road this afternoon.
By Rahmah Ghazali
Friday, 23rd July 2021, 3:23 pm

South Yorkshire Police said emergency services were called at 12.11pm to reports of a collision on Cricket Inn Road involving a tram and an HGV


A woman has been taken to hospital with minor injuries and emergency services remain at the scene to deal with the incident.
(Continues at source)

Photos in the article by Scott Merrylees, presumably copyright holder, suggest a collision at a crossing between the tram and a skip wagon. The front portion of tram appears to have been derailed and damaged quite badly.








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onthecushions
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2021, 06:33:47 pm »


Junction Cricket Inn Road and Bernard Street, just by Hyde Park Tram Stop, near Park Square (except it isn't).

The flat crossing is protected by traffic signals...

OTC
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broadgage
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2021, 08:18:48 pm »

Is there likely to be any hard evidence as to whom was at fault ? Forward facing camera on the tram for example, or traffic monitoring cameras.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2021, 08:26:24 pm »

Other drivers will testifyvas to the traffic lights. That lorry won’t have been the only vehicle there
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2021, 12:43:25 pm »

Is there likely to be any hard evidence as to whom was at fault ? Forward facing camera on the tram for example, or traffic monitoring cameras.

If I was a betting man, I would make a punt - but I suspect it would be with very short odds.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2021, 12:55:16 pm »

Is there likely to be any hard evidence as to whom was at fault ? Forward facing camera on the tram for example, or traffic monitoring cameras.


South Yorkshire Police's statement makes it pretty clear whom they think was at fault:
Quote
A 60-year-old man from Sheffield has been reported for failing to stop at a traffic signal, driving without due care and attention and driving with an insecure load.
***
Police were called at 12.11pm today (23 July) to reports of a collision on Cricket Inn Road, Sheffield involving a tram and an HGV.
One person, a woman in her 20s, was taken to hospital with minor injuries.
Several passengers from the tram were treated at the scene for minor injuries and road closures remain in place.
The skip company, however, seem to be rather vociferously contesting it:
Quote
Good Evening
I’m sure a lot of you will have seen that one of our vehicles was involved in a RTC this lunchtime with a supertram on Cricket Inn Road.
Thankfully neither our driver or the supertram driver was hurt and only a few minor injuries were encountered by the tram passengers.
We have offered our full cooperation with the investigation into the causes of the accident, as at this stage it is not clear as to who was at fault for the incident.
Initial telemetry from our vehicle shows that it was travelling at 19mph at the time of the accident and there was no harsh acceleration or deceleration at any point on the lead up to the accident indicating that the driver did not deliberately attempt to jump any red lights etc as has been reported. We are working with the police and will be reviewing all dashcam footage to ascertain what may have caused today’s unfortunate accident.
In the meantime I will be making a formal complaint to SYP regarding some posts that they sent out after the accident saying that our driver had been arrested due to jumping a red light, driving without due care and attention and driving a dangerous vehicle.
This is simply a false statement which is why it has already been edited a number of times today! The facts are that our driver was not arrested and he passed all of the expected drink and drug tests carried out by the police after the accident. He was not on his phone or distracted in any other way either.
The vehicle wasn’t speeding and the vehicle is serviced every 8 weeks by the main dealer and has no known defects. The brakes were not defective and the vehicle was not overloaded or carrying an insecure load.
I will be asking SYP for a retraction of their comments and an apology to our driver for the suffering it has caused him due to subsequent comments from the public based on their post.
Accidents unfortunately happen and thankfully on this occasion nobody was seriously hurt. Now is the time for us to work with the authorities, the Council and Supertram to establish the cause of the accident and look to prevent another accident happening in future.
Bradwells will be offering our full support to our driver during what must be a very difficult time for him and his family .
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TonyK
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2021, 01:47:51 pm »


The skip company, however, seem to be rather vociferously contesting it:


Sort of. They are right in saying that their driver wasn't arrested and the full facts are not know. What they haven't said is is that "Our driver did not jump a red light, didn't have an insecure load, and hasn't been reported for those and driving without due care and attention". If the traffic lights are like those in Greater Manchester, Oldham, Thornoton Cleveleys etc, they will be interlinked to the tram signal. There might even be a camera monitoring them.

A similar thing happened on the very first day of tram-train running. The driver admitted jumping the red light and was fined £250 with three points. A charge of careless driving wasn't proceeded with.

Whatever happens, it's going to be a fun day for whoever deals with the next insurance renewal at Bradwells. Those tram-trains cost £4 million, and a day's loss of revenue will look a tidy sum on the claim. I am sure it won't be a write-off, but it could be a hefty repair bill.
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2021, 02:21:40 pm »

From the trajectory of the skip lorry post-collision (see downed traffic light next to white car), I am very glad there were no pedestrians around at that crossing point or there would potentially have been fatalities.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2021, 02:56:27 pm »

Quote
Initial telemetry from our vehicle shows that it was travelling at 19mph at the time of the accident and there was no harsh acceleration or deceleration at any point on the lead up to the accident indicating that the driver did not deliberately attempt to jump any red lights etc as has been reported.
This would also indicate the driver did not try to brake.
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TonyK
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2021, 03:01:02 pm »

Quote
Initial telemetry from our vehicle shows that it was travelling at 19mph at the time of the accident and there was no harsh acceleration or deceleration at any point on the lead up to the accident indicating that the driver did not deliberately attempt to jump any red lights etc as has been reported.
This would also indicate the driver did not try to brake.

I thought that too. It was something of a qualified denial.
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broadgage
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2021, 06:49:24 pm »

I will admit to being having rather negative view of skip lorries and the drivers thereof. Skip lorries seem to feature regularly in misuse of level crossings and being stopped for being not roadworthy.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
onthecushions
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2021, 08:47:54 pm »


I would back rail safety over road safety any day.

However, the crossing is immediately after a left fork and the traffic signal may not be visible to a turning road vehicle at normal speed in time.

OTC

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TonyK
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2021, 11:21:01 pm »


I would back rail safety over road safety any day.

However, the crossing is immediately after a left fork and the traffic signal may not be visible to a turning road vehicle at normal speed in time.

OTC

If it was was a stranger driving over a new bit of road, that might be an explanation. But I am sure the road layout, signs and signals were all thought out very carefully. In any case, the driver is a professional driving for a local company over a crossing that has been in use since 1994. If he can afford Mr Loophole, the court might accept that - if asked to make a decision.
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2021, 12:05:34 am »


I would back rail safety over road safety any day.

However, the crossing is immediately after a left fork and the traffic signal may not be visible to a turning road vehicle at normal speed in time.

OTC



I would also back rail safety over road safety any day, in the case of a "proper railway"  But this is a tramway, and one merit of tramways over proper railways is reduced cost by having fewer or simpler safety features.
Consider for example the fatal overspeed incident on the Croydon tram system, no overspeed protection device was fitted.

Proper trains are fitted with features that prevent a driver passing a signal at danger as a result of momentary inattention, no such is fitted to trams.

There has been a general view that trams are more akin to busses than to trains. Busses are not fitted with overspeed protection nor with any means to prevent the driver from jumping a red traffic signal.

Despite my slight misgivings about tram safety, I agree that in this case that the fault was probably with the road vehicle driver.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
GBM
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2021, 08:15:55 am »

Whilst individual thoughts on 'who didn't do what', I do think the RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report will be conclusive.
The GMP will no double do their own investigation, and prosecute as applicable.

It is unfortunate that the GMP and the Met are both under great scrutiny on historical procedural investigations.

As to poor drivers, may I put scaffolding wagons and skip wagons at the top of my list; closely followed by cyclists.
Whilst white van man (with very humble apologies to member CfN) follows on my list, I do empathise that they HAVE to stop somewhere to drop off the stuff I've ordered.  Just don't do it on my route please!
Utility vehicles also just stop and also erect road signs which obstruct the road.

However, this is way off thread, so bowing out quickly with hard hat on  Embarrassed
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