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Author Topic: Plane Shame?  (Read 3560 times)
grahame
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« on: August 14, 2021, 06:56:56 »

From The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

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For Maggie Robertson, it was a long-haul flight to Texas that changed her mind about flying.

It was 2017 and she was having a great holiday. But then Hurricane Harvey came along - and she and her family narrowly sidestepped floods that cost more than 100 lives.

"That brush with natural disaster helped put things in perspective," she says.

Previously a regular flyer, visiting friends in Scotland and holidaying abroad, she says the penny dropped during that trip. And in the end, the decision was easy.

"It was a relief to say I'm not doing it any more," she says. "I knew that what I was doing wasn't consistent with what I thought was right."
She is one of a small band of people who have found flying just too uncomfortable to contemplate any more.

Many more people are still boarding the planes, but wrestling with a growing sense of shame.

It may be that she is just one of a small band ... (must be a small band because the BBC says so??) but this is so much on the cusp of becoming more mainstream.

Yesterday, I met with one of our local friends. Formerly a flyer to visit friends in Scotland, she's now using public transport and was telling me about her research of Melksham to Portree in a day - possible but stretching it, starting on the first train and ending up on the late coach from Glasgow, train and bus via Kyle having left by the time the train arrives into Inverness.   Solution is to travel slightly later in the day, and stop overnight somewhere along the way.
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ellendune
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 08:45:33 »

Solution is to travel slightly later in the day, and stop overnight somewhere along the way.

Or we speed up the trains a little! Either by increased line speeds or better connections. 
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eightonedee
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 10:43:00 »

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she's now using public transport

Surely scheduled airlines are "public transport"?  Or did they have their own private plane?
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broadgage
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 12:32:32 »

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she's now using public transport

Surely scheduled airlines are "public transport"?  Or did they have their own private plane?

I agree that scheduled airlines are public transport.
A type of public transport that should in my view be discouraged on account of the fossil fuel bunt and growing concerns about climate change, but yes "public transport"

Words tend to change meaning over time, and not always for the better.

"fuel" SHOULD mean all/any fuel unless otherwise specified, but increasingly the term is used to mean only petrol and diesel fuel for motor vehicles.

"energy" SHOULD mean any/all energy unless otherwise specified, but increasingly seems to mean only electrical energy.

And as above "public transport" is often used incorrectly to mean only busses and trains and derivatives thereof such as trams, and excluding scheduled flights and ferries.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 18:25:18 by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ellendune
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 12:36:40 »

"energy" SHOULD any/all energy unless otherwise specified, but increasingly seems to mean only electrical energy.

The term "energy bills" is now widely used to mean domestic gas and electricity bills. 
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 13:29:21 »

"energy" SHOULD any/all energy unless otherwise specified, but increasingly seems to mean only electrical energy.

The term "energy bills" is now widely used to mean domestic gas and electricity bills. 
Probably because both are frequently supplied by the same company. You can pay your electricity bill to British Gas and your gas bill to Southern Electric. A good example of how the use of words changes in response to changes in habits.
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 10:54:18 »

From The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
For Maggie Robertson, it was a long-haul flight to Texas that changed her mind about flying.

It was 2017 and she was having a great holiday. But then Hurricane Harvey came along - and she and her family narrowly sidestepped floods that cost more than 100 lives.

"That brush with natural disaster helped put things in perspective," she says.

Previously a regular flyer, visiting friends in Scotland and holidaying abroad, she says the penny dropped during that trip. And in the end, the decision was easy.

"It was a relief to say I'm not doing it any more," she says. "I knew that what I was doing wasn't consistent with what I thought was right."
She is one of a small band of people who have found flying just too uncomfortable to contemplate any more.

Many more people are still boarding the planes, but wrestling with a growing sense of shame.

It may be that she is just one of a small band ... (must be a small band because the BBC says so??) but this is so much on the cusp of becoming more mainstream.

Yesterday, I met with one of our local friends. Formerly a flyer to visit friends in Scotland, she's now using public transport and was telling me about her research of Melksham to Portree in a day - possible but stretching it, starting on the first train and ending up on the late coach from Glasgow, train and bus via Kyle having left by the time the train arrives into Inverness.   Solution is to travel slightly later in the day, and stop overnight somewhere along the way.

I have read so many articles which refer to people making this choice as being in the minority. We aren't (I have flown anywhere since the 1990s). Each year, the majority of the population in this country do not fly anywhere. Some fly once or a few times, a few fly a lot (mainly but not wholly for business). The point is that it is a minority of people each year who are flying, and to suggest that it is a very small select group of people who aren't flying is nonsense. It may be a small band who make that choice for environmental reasons (though I've never seen anything to actually back that up), but it is an equally small band who are frequent flyers.

On the alternatives to flying, breaking the journey for an overnight stop used to be seen as part of the fun of making a long journey, and there is no reason why it shouldn't become the norm again. It is just a matter of expectations (which both availability of transport and cost of course feed into).
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broadgage
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2021, 11:23:17 »

I agree that many people do not fly, a commendable choice that ought to become more common.
I have not flown for about 20 years, and flew very little then.
Except in an emergency I have no intention to fly again.

The carbon dioxide emissions from flying are VERY ROUGHLY equivalent to those from driving, per person, per mile. No great accuracy can be claimed as both aircraft and road vehicles vary in fuel consumption and in load factor, but "in the same ball park"
The problem is that the speed of aircraft encourages much longer distances, very few people would drive 1,000 miles for a weekend break, but flying that distance is becoming routine.
Short haul is worse in emissions per mile, long haul is worse in total emissions per journey.

Supporters of air travel will no doubt state that it represents only a small part of total carbon emissions, which is true, but there is no hope for the climate if everyone says "this bit, or my bit, is too small to worry about"

As an interim measure I would like to see an end to giving any public money to air lines, airports,  plane builders, or related enterprises unless on a small scale in truly exceptional circumstances.
In the longer term I would like to see aviation fuel taxed as road fuel as.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 18:22:18 »


Supporters of air travel will no doubt state that it represents only a small part of total carbon emissions.

It represents only a small part of total carbon dioxide emissions. About 2%, or about a tenth of those of agriculture. I have no illusions - when aircraft run on synthetic fuel produced from atmospheric carbon dioxide using wind energy*, there will still be protests.

(* Won't be this year)
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Now, please!
broadgage
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2021, 03:47:36 »


Supporters of air travel will no doubt state that it represents only a small part of total carbon emissions.

It represents only a small part of total carbon dioxide emissions. About 2%, or about a tenth of those of agriculture. I have no illusions - when aircraft run on synthetic fuel produced from atmospheric carbon dioxide using wind energy*, there will still be protests.

(* Won't be this year)


I would not object to aircraft powered by synthetic fuel produced from wind energy, provided that the following conditions were met.

1) That the electricity used was 100% renewable AFTER meeting other electricity demand. NO running the synthetic fuel works on wind power whilst still burning natural gas for "general use" electricity.

2) Provided that the synthetic fuel is used FIRSTLY for essential purposes such as fire engines, ambulances, and life saving aviation, and THEN for holiday flights. No carrying on burning fossil fuel for food production, and emergency vehicles whilst using limited synthetic fuel for holiday flights.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2021, 06:54:51 »


Supporters of air travel will no doubt state that it represents only a small part of total carbon emissions, which is true, but there is no hope for the climate if everyone says "this bit, or my bit, is too small to worry about"



Given that viewpoint Broadgage, and the fact that Beef Farming/Raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gas emissions than all the cars, trucks, trains, ships, and planes in the world combined, no doubt you will be doing your "bit" by personally embracing veganism to set an example and campaigning for GWR (Great Western Railway) to remove meat from the Pullman menu?  Smiley

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broadgage
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2021, 07:15:10 »

No, but I have reduced my meat consumption significantly and only regularly consume locally produced free range beef or mutton, or sometimes wild Canada goose, these birds are large, stupid, and good to eat.
Most farmers consider them to be a pest and that eating them is to be encouraged.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2021, 07:49:43 »

No, but I have reduced my meat consumption significantly and only regularly consume locally produced free range beef or mutton, or sometimes wild Canada goose, these birds are large, stupid, and good to eat.
Most farmers consider them to be a pest and that eating them is to be encouraged.

I see. So you're saying that your bit is too small to worry about.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2021, 11:07:42 »

I guess many of us are happy and willing to make a few changes.  For some that might mean flying less or not at all, for others it’s making an extra effort to recycle as much as they can, for others it’s eliminating red meat from their diet, or even becoming a vegan.

Few, very few, do everything we possibly could though, and most will generally choose to carry on doing the things which they enjoy doing the most.

I guess for Broadgage that’s not giving up on meat entirely.  I won’t give him too hard a time over that as he clearly lives a sustainable life that puts most of us to shame, though it would be interesting to know what a ‘substantial’ reduction is?  From seven days a week to once a fortnight would be impressive.  From seven days a week to three days a week, less so.  And getting his goose all the way from Canada is just plain indulgence! Smiley
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broadgage
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2021, 12:24:05 »

My meat consumption varies but WAS several times a week and is now less than once a week on average.
Almost always locally produced so negligible carbon emissions from transport. Always free range so negligible carbon emissions from feed production. In summer I eat largely cold food to minimise use of electric cooker. Hot food more in the winter as use of cooker less of a concern in cold weather.
I recycle all that I can.
Don't drive, don't fly. I do use taxis a little, the last few cab journeys have been in an electric cab.

I shop largely on line, which involves carbon dioxide emissions from delivery vehicles, but suspect that these are less than driving to a supermarket.

I replace clothing and bedding only when worn out, never for fashion or to keep "on trend" I use primarily natural fibers, mainly  for comfort in use, but also to avoid adding "microplastic particles" to the sea via the use and laundering of synthetic materials.
Washing machine used only at night when electricity is cheaper and greener
I heat with logs and off peak electricity, greenish though not perfectly. Logs are presumably cut with a petrol chainsaw and are delivered in a diesel truck.

I keep reserves of anthracite, of propane, of candles, and of petrol, for emergencies but actual consumption of these fossil fuels  is minute.
I keep a stock of paraffin and use perhaps 15 liters a year, primarily to stop the plumbing from freezing. In very cold weather  I might use a Tilley infra red heater in the bathroom, regrettably.

In a heat wave I use a portable air conditioner, use this summer has been for about 25 hours, or about 25 kwh. Use last summer was zero. Carbon cost unknown but hopefully low as use is limited and is at times of maximum solar input to the grid.

No mains gas, no heating oil. Electricity bill is under £400 a year.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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