South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Summary

The following stations set to loose all

• (or all but 1
• ) of their through trains to London as from December 2021.

+ Keynsham - Jacob Rees-Mogg MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)
* Oldfield Park - Wera Hobbhouse MP
* Bradford-on-Avon - Michelle Donelan MP
* Trowbridge - Andrew Murrison MP
+ Warminster - Andrew Murrison MP

Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa loose all their through trains to South London (Waterloo) - as well as to Basingstoke, Woking and Clapham Junction.  Westbury has just one train left from South London, leaving Waterloo at 07:50 and returning from Westbury at 14:13.

[TaplowGreen]

Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa loose all their through trains to South London (Waterloo) - as well as to Basingstoke, Woking and Clapham Junction.  Westbury has just one train left from South London, leaving Waterloo at 07:50 and returning from Westbury at 14:13.

It's all of 15 mins from Paddington to Waterloo on the Bakerloo line, and Westbury, Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Bath are well served with fast services to Paddington.

The direct Bristol service from Waterloo takes almost 3 hours, whereas it's roughly 90 mins via Paddington.

I think a little perspective is helpful here?

[grahame]

Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa loose all their through trains to South London (Waterloo) - as well as to Basingstoke, Woking and Clapham Junction.  Westbury has just one train left from South London, leaving Waterloo at 07:50 and returning from Westbury at 14:13.

It's all of 15 mins from Paddington to Waterloo on the Bakerloo line, and Westbury, Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Bath are well served with fast services to Paddington.

The direct Bristol service from Waterloo takes almost 3 hours, whereas it's roughly 90 mins via Paddington.

I think a little perspective is helpful here?

From the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) journey planner for Today

Bristol Temple Meads to Waterloo via Paddington, 134 or 135 minutes, 1 (or 2 - BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)) changes
Bristol Temple Meads direct to Waterloo - 179 minutes

Trowbridge to Waterloo via Paddington, 137 to 151 minutes - 2 changes (so three trains to travel on)
Trowbridge to Waterloo direct, 138 minutes

Warminster to Waterloo via Paddington, 128 to 170 minutes - 2 changes (so three trains to travel on)
Warminster to Waterloo direct, 121 minutes.

Where does your 90 minutes BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to WAT via PAD come from, TaplowGreen?  Never mind perspective, sorry, I have to question your accuracy!

[Mark A]

That's the LU platform to platform time, yes?

Now build in reliability margin, walking time either end - count this for a range of people rather than simply for 'Reference man'.

Remember that your seat is on the front half of a ten car set, and you're travelling with a young child.

Then let's look at the evening peak. Previously you'd stepped abourd the 16:20. Since it stopped running, you need to start heading for Paddington from one of the south London terminals a bit before three, to catch a Paddington train before 4pm, or even earlier if you're heading for an advance-booked train you cannot afford to miss.

So... The time advantage of the Paddington route is practically smoke, right there.

[Timmer]

I see that this Saturday, the service is bustituted, and Sunday it is double bustituted.   

(Incidentally, does anyone recall the days of weekend returns when BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) was sometimes able to clear an engineering possession by late Sunday afternoon in order to run trains to return people to where they needed to be?)

Remember it well along with the biannual timetables showing when engineering work was taking place.

[grahame]

That's the LU platform to platform time, yes?

My times are from Bristol Temple Meads / Trowbridge / Warminster initial train pulling out (you need to be on board 40 seconds earlier, of course!) to doors released at Waterloo - either main line or underground platforms. Looking at the connections at Paddington, they consistently allow 15 minutes from your train's scheduled arrival to the tube leaving. 

I personally feel uncomfortable scheduling myself to arrive at a major London terminus on the tube with just 15 minutes to go before my departure (especially if it's onto a less that frequent service such as a Westbury caller, or if I have an advance ticket) and would allow an extra 15 minutes in the opposite direction to the figures I gave TO Waterloo.

For today ... this is what I'm being offered from Trowbridge to Waterloo via Salisbury if I don't want multiple changes, in the hourly pattern:



Muddy picture - there are better connections and through services show. Some of them may well be retained after December, but there will be far less of them with 5 extra from Westbury to Salisbury planned for removal from the timetable.

Here is the opposite direction:

[grahame]

I see that this Saturday, the service is bustituted, and Sunday it is double bustituted.   

Remember it well along with the biannual timetables showing when engineering work was taking place.

I just look at the Saturday one ... Waterloo to Trowbridge.   No slower that the train with a connection at Salisbury. Waterloo to Andover, 10 minutes to connect onto the bus to Salisbury, from where there is a 10 minute connection onto the train to Trowbridge!

[Timmer]

That's the LU platform to platform time, yes?

TfL^» (Transport for London - about) journey planner has it down at 24 minutes:
5 min transfer Waterloo
14 min platform to platform
5 min transfer Paddington

I was actually a little surprised the journey time of the train was only 14 minutes. Thought it would be more like 20.

[BandHcommuter]

Side effect from another piece of research - official mantra is that three stations loose their direct trains to / from London when "the Waterloo" ceases in December.   They are Oldfield Park, Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge.   But note that Keynsham will drop (I think) to just one train a day - timed to help in the peak hour loadings from there into and out of Temple Meads (and not at the times that the good people of Keynsham will want to go to London) and look at this for Warminster:

Even today (far short of pre-Covid service from SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)), there are trains to Waterloo at 07:48, 11:44, 14:23, 15:52, and 16:47 with one as far as Basingstoke at 20:24.   From December, just one a day to Waterloo - the 14:23 (which is hardly the most attractive of these time).  There is just one arrival back from Waterloo, leaving London at 07:50.   The 12:20, 16:20 and 19:20 from London (in today's running) all cease.

Has it been flagged up in Warminster that they to are loosing three quarters of their London trains?

Looking at Real Time Trains for December, it appears that the departures from Warminster at 0748, 1148 and 1552 attach to other trains at Salisbury and then continue to Waterloo.

[grahame]

Side effect from another piece of research - official mantra is that three stations loose their direct trains to / from London when "the Waterloo" ceases in December.   They are Oldfield Park, Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge.   But note that Keynsham will drop (I think) to just one train a day - timed to help in the peak hour loadings from there into and out of Temple Meads (and not at the times that the good people of Keynsham will want to go to London) and look at this for Warminster:

Even today (far short of pre-Covid service from SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)), there are trains to Waterloo at 07:48, 11:44, 14:23, 15:52, and 16:47 with one as far as Basingstoke at 20:24.   From December, just one a day to Waterloo - the 14:23 (which is hardly the most attractive of these time).  There is just one arrival back from Waterloo, leaving London at 07:50.   The 12:20, 16:20 and 19:20 from London (in today's running) all cease.

Has it been flagged up in Warminster that they to are loosing three quarters of their London trains?

Looking at Real Time Trains for December, it appears that the departures from Warminster at 0748, 1148 and 1552 attach to other trains at Salisbury and then continue to Waterloo.

Ah - yes.  Just taking a look / will check back further later / on a panic elsewhere at the moment,  Looks like these 3 trains might run TO Waterloo, but FROM Waterloo the only direct train is 07:50, the others starting from Basingstoke.  Is that possible or logical?

[Clan Line]

Ah - yes.  Just taking a look / will check back further later / on a panic elsewhere at the moment,  Looks like these 3 trains might run TO Waterloo, but FROM Waterloo the only direct train is 07:50, the others starting from Basingstoke.  Is that possible or logical?

According to RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) 3 of the 4 SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) services from WMN^» (Warminster - next trains) to SAL do actually go on to WAT. But the one through service in the opposite direction is..............just absolutely ludicrous !
0750 from WAT to YVP, they could run 10 coaches to SAL on that, then 5 to WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) and 3 to YVP........OR............. after a few weeks say that no one is using that train and remove it from the timetable !

The newspapers are full of adverts at the moment urging people to use the trains............what trains

[TaplowGreen]

Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa loose all their through trains to South London (Waterloo) - as well as to Basingstoke, Woking and Clapham Junction.  Westbury has just one train left from South London, leaving Waterloo at 07:50 and returning from Westbury at 14:13.

It's all of 15 mins from Paddington to Waterloo on the Bakerloo line, and Westbury, Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Bath are well served with fast services to Paddington.

The direct Bristol service from Waterloo takes almost 3 hours, whereas it's roughly 90 mins via Paddington.

I think a little perspective is helpful here?

From the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) journey planner for Today

Bristol Temple Meads to Waterloo via Paddington, 134 or 135 minutes, 1 (or 2 - BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)) changes
Bristol Temple Meads direct to Waterloo - 179 minutes

Trowbridge to Waterloo via Paddington, 137 to 151 minutes - 2 changes (so three trains to travel on)
Trowbridge to Waterloo direct, 138 minutes

Warminster to Waterloo via Paddington, 128 to 170 minutes - 2 changes (so three trains to travel on)
Warminster to Waterloo direct, 121 minutes.

Where does your 90 minutes BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to WAT via PAD come from, TaplowGreen?  Never mind perspective, sorry, I have to question your accuracy!

OK - parking the sarcasm -  I used your own example of Bristol TM to "South London", and I was silly to forget to add the Tube journey from Paddington to Waterloo to that - GWR's own website states an average time of 96 minutes between Bristol TM and London Paddington - let's allow an extraordinarily pessimistic half an hour for the Tube journey to Waterloo (a journey I did myself almost every day for 15 years) - total 126 minutes.

South Western Railways own website gives 179 minutes - 1 min shy of 3 hours -  for its direct service from Bristol TM - Waterloo.

So using GWR, notwithstanding changing onto the Tube at Paddington, is going to save you an hour, with a far more frequent service.

[Mark A]

Just leaving Salisbury on the 16:20 from Waterloo. 54 passengers, 5 of which are in first class. 5 passengers travelling with bicycles.

[ChrisB]

Aren’t services from SAL to Waterloo to continue? I’m not sure what you are suggesting?

[Mark A]

This was the down train from Waterloo: 54 passengers and 5 bikes were on the portion for Bristol. A few will have come aboard at Salisbury, not many though. The majority headed for stations short of Bath, while the train also filled up from Warminster too.