South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

A sad day indeed. Well done and thank you Graham and BNM for traveling on the last service from Bristol to Waterloo to mark the end of this well used service. It won’t be until next week that many who use it will find it has disappeared and will have to use lesser alternative services instead 

[Mark A]

Most of today's train service for Whitchurch seems to have been 'Trowbridged', yes?

Freeing up the staff from the Saturday SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) Bristol trains seems to be going well...

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WCH/2021-12-11/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Mark

[grahame]

A sad day indeed. Well done and thank you Graham and BNM for traveling on the last service from Bristol to Waterloo to mark the end of this well used service. It won’t be until next week that many who use it will find it has disappeared and will have to use lesser alternative services instead 

Thank you - I have initially followed up at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=25739.msg315843#msg315843 on our "frequent poster" board - I'll follow up with full stats and a report later today; an element of a "morning off" for me as I was up way later than normal bed time.

[Mark A]

SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) twitter this evening have responded to a query as to why so many trains at Salisbury are cancelled today with 'Hi Billy, this was due to a shortage of train crew, along with the withdrawal of our services between Bristol and  Salisbury.'

[Mark A]

From Real Time Trains: the Bristol to Paddington via Trowbridge didn't run this morning.

Rather puts the dampeners on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) chap with an 'Oh, there's our train to Paddington at the ever so useful time of 05:40.' snarkily correcting someone's assertion that Trowbridge was losing all London services.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87248/2021-12-15/detailed

Add this to the observations elsewhere* on GWR's ability to strengthen certain services that mitigate the loss of the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) trains between Salisbury and Bristol and much of the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) talk becomes moonshine, yes?

Mark

*Here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=25759.0

[Witham Bobby]

SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) twitter this evening have responded to a query as to why so many trains at Salisbury are cancelled today with 'Hi Billy, this was due to a shortage of train crew, along with the withdrawal of our services between Bristol and  Salisbury.'

A tweet that Delores Umbridge could have written

[grahame]

From Real Time Trains: the Bristol to Paddington via Trowbridge didn't run this morning.

Rather puts the dampeners on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) chap with an 'Oh, there's our train to Paddington at the ever so useful time of 05:40.' snarkily correcting someone's assertion that Trowbridge was losing all London services.

To be fair to GWR, I don't think they've ever suggested (to me anyway) that their train at 05:40 to London (with no direct train back at all) is an adequate replacement for trains mid morning, afternoon and evening in both directions.   I HAVE been corrected when someone thought I said "there will no longer be any through trains from Trowbridge to London" when actually I have said, consistently, "there will no longer be any through trains from London to Trowbridge". 

Most people I know who have used the direct service to Waterloo in the past have not used the 05:40 - I'm the exception and have used both and on the few occasions I have used the 05:40 there have only been one or two there passengers joining the train there.   Reasons that others have not used it are:
* It's the wrong time for them
* There is no bus connection to Trowbridge Station that connects into it
* It's a "peak" train - you need an anytime ticket which is very expensive if you don't book ahead and get lucky
* They don't want London (Paddington) - they want London (Waterloo)
* They want to go out and back direct and via the same route.
Who operated it and what colour it's painted are not concerns - if GWR ran three trains a day from Trowbridge to Waterloo and back just like SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) (or Wales and West, or Regional Railways) used to, I think we would all be happy.

[Mark A]

It's just struck me: given that there's no coordination between services on the two lines, the railways are now running Bristol to Waterloo in the manner of two branches: Bristol to Salisbury and Salisbury to Waterloo.

So, the service joins these (and probably others, trying to think of other through lines, now severed, leaving one or two unprofitable stubs):

Manchester to Chinley and Matlock to Derby: gap: 24 miles.
Exeter to Okehampton and Bere Alston to Plymouth: gap: 22 miles.
London - Uckfield and Lewes - south coast destinations: gap: 11 miles.

and now:

London Waterloo - Salisbury and Salisbury to Bristol: gap: 0 miles, but hey, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) strikes again!

(More seriously, the hit to network connectivity from that lot is considerable - and given the 21st Century knowledge base, when it comes to journey opportunities, on the value of networks, its embarrassing)

[grahame]

Middlesbrough has an hourly service to York and a half hourly service to Darlington, both of which have services to London at least every 30 minutes. The proposed London service duplicates the existing service to York. Double standards?

According to bus and train user: https://busandtrainuser.com/2021/12/16/december-train-developments/

There are of course other train journeys available from Teesside to London including the hourly TransPennine Express (TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express)) Middlesbrough to York service (part of its Redcar to Manchester Airport timetable) which provides connections in York for London or the Northern hourly service to Darlington and change there. But changing trains is never as convenient as a through service so the new LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) journey scores highly on that front.

However, if journey time is important a quirk of train pathing means you can leave Middlesbrough at 07:20, twelve minutes after the morning LNER train has gone, and arrive into Kings Cross eight minutes sooner at 10:14 instead of the LNER’S 10:22, even including a six minute change of trains at Northallerton (from TPE to Grand Central). How odd is that?

So you could leave Middlesbrough on Northern or TransPennine Express and change to either LNER or Great Central, and in addition you can now travel direct with LNER too.

[IndustryInsider]

Middlesbrough has an hourly service to York and a half hourly service to Darlington, both of which have services to London at least every 30 minutes. The proposed London service duplicates the existing service to York. Double standards?

So you could leave Middlesbrough on Northern or TransPennine Express and change to either LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) or Great Central, and in addition you can now travel direct with LNER too.

Other than the fact this service started at the same time the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) trains were withdrawn, I'm not sure it makes for a good comparison.  Just the one direct train a day from Middlesbrough, also calling at Thornaby, which have a combined population of more than four times Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.

[jamestheredengine]

Middlesbrough has an hourly service to York and a half hourly service to Darlington, both of which have services to London at least every 30 minutes. The proposed London service duplicates the existing service to York. Double standards?

So you could leave Middlesbrough on Northern or TransPennine Express and change to either LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) or Great Central, and in addition you can now travel direct with LNER too.

Other than the fact this service started at the same time the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) trains were withdrawn, I'm not sure it makes for a good comparison.  Just the one direct train a day from Middlesbrough, also calling at Thornaby, which have a combined population of more than four times Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.

If we're building new high-speed (or even medium-speed) lines, there's a very good case for an Intercity loop off the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) serving Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, and Sunderland.

[Mark A]

Ah. A Bristol to Waterloo via Salisbury direct train. Just the one though. 2nd July.

https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-atlantic-coast-express

Mark

[grahame]

I think that heads to Exeter rather than to Bristol, Mark?

There are regular paths for a steam train, mid-week, from Victoria to Bath and Bristol for day trips - run "as required" - there's even one today.

[Mark A]

Indeed it's out via, um, Honiton, and back via Bristol to Salisbury and then Waterloo.

[Mark A]

New year coverage in the Wiltshire Times - from John Baker who reported on the ~2004 attempt to fold the service.

https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/19823097.rail-service-axed-despite-protests-mps/