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Author Topic: Bridge strike Plymouth 30 August  (Read 3247 times)
LiskeardRich
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2021, 07:54:54 am »

Quote
Someone has got very confused about what days of the week we are talking about.
Oh gosh yes. If it had happened a year ago the dates would be correct. Can only think someone had last years calendar on their desk  Huh

Or thought yesterday was only Sunday being a bank holiday
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grahame
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2021, 08:34:46 am »

Very few road traffic collisions are true accidents, examples of these rare ones include.
Sudden collapse of man made structure into road, vehicles run into it.
Sudden fall of tree across road.
Sudden illness of driver.
Unforeseeable mechanical failure.

Not sure that even all of these are "accidents" - some are rather more they could be considered as incidents where the failure is by someone beyond those immediately present.    For example, if a bridge collapses or a sink hole opens in a road, is that not down to the people responsible for maintaining the road ... and trees should be kept in check (and checked for safety) by the land owner.

But you can end up so blame-attribution-driver and risk-averse that you'll achieve nothing, "just in case"  ...
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bradshaw
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2021, 09:05:40 am »

It would seem that one line can be used according to Journey Check

Quote
Customer Advice
A lorry has collided with a railway bridge in Plymouth, causing damage to the bridge structure. The bridge hasbeen examined by structural engineers and further inspections are needed during daylight hours on Tuesday 31August.
Only one of the 2 running lines is currently open and 1 train per hour in each direction can operate until further notice.Due to the damage sustained,there is a high likelihood that disruption will continue for longer. 
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2021, 09:23:10 am »

I remain of the opinion that penalties for this type of incompetent driving should be far more severe.

The driver of the truck should lose their licence for some years, except in the rather unlikely case of some exceptional extenuating circumstance.

The operator, or more realistically their insurers, should be liable for the full costs of delay minutes, compensation to passengers, surveyors fees, bridge repairs and other costs.
A few large payouts would concentrate the mind.

I was just wondering things like consequential losses claimable from the truck insurers.. I’m due to go to London tomorrow for my eldest step daughters birthday outing. I’m not ruining her birthday outing due to this so will likely drive from Cornwall to Exeter St David’s to pick up the train, seeing the rail replacement reporting lack of availability. I’ll now incur additional car parking costs (id have walked to my local station) and around 120 miles round trip of petrol as a result of this trucks negligence.
Obviously I wouldn’t dream of claiming off GWR (Great Western Railway), but what grounds would the truck company have to deny they caused my out of pocket costs by this incident. It isn’t worth claiming, purely hypothetical I’ll probably be £20 out of pocket at most. 
Losses from these events are very widely distributed, which makes it less likely those responsible will bear them in full.
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grahame
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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2021, 10:09:48 am »

Update from Journey Check ... noting it's until the end of tomorrow at least:

Quote
Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Totnes

Due to a lorry colliding with a bridge between Plymouth and Totnes all lines are closed.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 01/09/21.

Customer Advice

A lorry has collided with a railway bridge in Plymouth, causing damage to the bridge structure. The bridge hasbeen examined by structural engineers and further inspections are needed during daylight hours on Tuesday 31August.

Only one of the 2 running lines is currently open and 1 train per hour in each direction can operate until further notice. Due to the damage sustained, there is a high likelihood that disruption will continue for longer.

Customer Advice

A limited train service will be running between Plymouth and Newton Abbot and you are still advised not to travel between these stations.

Train services are running between Plymouth and Penzance, between Exmouth, Exeter St Davids and Paignton, as well as between Exeter St Davids and London Paddington, although these services are subject to alteration.

With an hourly 9 or 10 carriage train each way between Plymouth and Exeter St David's (serving stations to Newton Abbot), that feels like it should be reasonable capacity - or is this a really busy week, and still trouble?

Notifications getting clearer - noting two sections headed "customer advice", the first one of which might have been better labelled "what has happened" as it talks about (as I was trained ...) features rather than 'benefits'.  Perhaps "What has happened" rather than "how you can travel" would be better terminology.
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Mark A
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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2021, 10:52:09 am »

Length of the single line section is potentially ~1.75 miles.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2021, 10:56:21 am »

From my twitter feed -

7 concrete sleepers cracked plus 10 voussoirs with vertical & lateral displacement by 6 inches. 30 road coaches ordered. Order given for no attempt to dislodge the lorry, fearing such action may cause further damage. Power cables are routed across the parapet too. It's a route for signalling cables, and fibre-optic cables were found inside the parapet.
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grahame
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2021, 11:19:23 am »

From my twitter feed -

... voussoirs ...

I had to look that up ...

A voussoir (/vuˈswɑːr/) is a wedge-shaped element, typically a stone, which is used in building an arch or vault.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2021, 11:41:18 am »

yep - the arch stones that hold the arch together....
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ellendune
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2021, 12:15:23 pm »

yep - the arch stones that hold the arch together....

[/pedantmode=on/]

No gravity hold the arch together!  The voussoirs form the arch.  As an arch the ones on the outside are actually no more important than those on the inside, but are highly visible.  However the they do hold up the spandrel walls (the side walls of the bridge which have the parapet built on top), which retains the fill including the ballast.

[/pedantmode=off/]

7 concrete sleepers cracked plus 10 voussoirs with vertical & lateral displacement by 6 inches.

It is some eyars since I did bridge engineering, but the photo only shows the facing voussoirs not sure how far back the damage goes.  If I were the bridge engineer I would be equally worried about the near side of the arch and the spandrel walls. The truck will clearly need to be removed carefully after some supports have been inserted to stabilise the bridge. Its a tight fit so they may need to cut into the truck to do that.  Once done the displaced voussoirs will need to be let down carefully to restore the shape and at least part of the spandrel and parapet look like they might need rebuilding which would mean digging out at least some of the fill. Worst case is the the track and the fill needs to be removed and a concrete slab cast over the arch.

I would expect there would need to be a possession while the truck is removed and the bridge restored to its former position.  If the track and ballast have to be removed then it may need to be longer.     

Shows why an inspection is required for every bridge strike. 

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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2021, 12:25:38 pm »

yep - the arch stones that hold the arch together....

[/pedantmode=on/]

No gravity hold the arch together!  The voussoirs form the arch.  As an arch the ones on the outside are actually no more important than those on the inside, but are highly visible.  However the they do hold up the spandrel walls (the side walls of the bridge which have the parapet built on top), which retains the fill including the ballast.

[/pedantmode=off/]

Hmmm....remove the key voissoir and gravity will cause the arch to collapse. All the voissoirs need to be in place and this prevents gravilty from causing the arch to collapse.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2021, 12:34:29 pm »

Another example of how useful a diversionary route via Tavistock and Okehampton would be....Not all about the seawall!

It's an interesting point.

When ARPA developed the specification for the internet, they built into it the concept of multiple redundant paths. Beeching was also very interested in redundant paths, of course. But in his case he wasn't interested in strengthening them to provide a resilient network; he wanted to remove them to provide a cheaper one. You get what you pay for.

Having said that, just suppose this incident had been west of the Tamar... what would be the alternative route in that case?
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ellendune
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2021, 12:44:12 pm »

Having said that, just suppose this incident had been west of the Tamar... what would be the alternative route in that case?

Via Oakhampton and the North Cornwall Railway and a reversal at Wadebridge and Bodmin General!  But that is never going to happen. 
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2021, 03:45:34 pm »

I remain of the opinion that penalties for this type of incompetent driving should be far more severe.

The driver of the truck should lose their licence for some years, except in the rather unlikely case of some exceptional extenuating circumstance.

The operator, or more realistically their insurers, should be liable for the full costs of delay minutes, compensation to passengers, surveyors fees, bridge repairs and other costs.
A few large payouts would concentrate the mind.

I was just wondering things like consequential losses claimable from the truck insurers.. I’m due to go to London tomorrow for my eldest step daughters birthday outing. I’m not ruining her birthday outing due to this so will likely drive from Cornwall to Exeter St David’s to pick up the train, seeing the rail replacement reporting lack of availability. I’ll now incur additional car parking costs (id have walked to my local station) and around 120 miles round trip of petrol as a result of this trucks negligence.
Obviously I wouldn’t dream of claiming off GWR (Great Western Railway), but what grounds would the truck company have to deny they caused my out of pocket costs by this incident. It isn’t worth claiming, purely hypothetical I’ll probably be £20 out of pocket at most. 
Losses from these events are very widely distributed, which makes it less likely those responsible will bear them in full.

Given the railways attitude to paying out for its customers consequential losses due to cancellation and delay, I wonder if they expect other companies to be more accommodating in these circumstances?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2021, 03:46:49 pm »

Both sleepers will run tonight using the single line
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